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pugman18 Ricer
Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Tech posts: 16
My 2NRide: Peugeot 306
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Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: WTK: about port & polish engine |
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i wanna know
if i port and polish my stock 1.6 engine..will i see any gains?
and is dere anyone in trinidad who can port and polish a 1.6peugeot engine for me properly??
i want to jus get a lil extra hp from the engine and i want no turbos
already put headers and intake. |
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crossdrilled I LUV THIS PLACE
Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Tech posts: 929 Location: In work..Beyotches!! My 2NRide: Nissan Bluebird SSS
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Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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I see an article in Wheels Jamaca that might be of interest. Search them. However, they talking about actually sanding it down (the rough edges) mechanically with rotary tools.
The best method is to extrusion hone, but don't know anywhere that does that in trinidad. You will have to play with your ECU settings when finished as the intake characteristics will change. You might be running lean afterwards. |
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Dave 3NE 2NR Moderator
Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Tech posts: 11905 Location: playing with above and below My 2NRide: Mitsubishi Evolution VIII
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:05 am Post subject: |
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honestly the gains may be minimal compared to the cost of doing that work
modern heads gain very little wen kept in the stock na form unless peugeot made a terrible flwoing head
research here would be your friend
as a general guideline, u can go fully polished on the exhaust but u need a lil turbulence on the intake, usually around 220grit or so |
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Sanctifier Shifting into 6th
Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Tech posts: 2078 Location: Good question! My 2NRide:
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ^ ^ ^ Good advice there. |
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super_cadet Street 2NR
Joined: 26 Mar 2005 Tech posts: 90 Location: Trincity My 2NRide:
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Isnt the port and polish for taking out irregularities associated with mass production casting method of making the heads??
I was contemplating doin that as well seeing i have to take my head down to change out seals.. |
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dmitc Sweet on this forum
Joined: 19 Dec 2007 Tech posts: 301 Location: Barataria My 2NRide: Toyota Corolla
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| super_cadet wrote: | Isnt the port and polish for taking out irregularities associated with mass production casting method of making the heads??
I was contemplating doin that as well seeing i have to take my head down to change out seals.. |
the problem is doing it where?
who in trinidad you know that you would trust not to have you lokking for a new head when they done.
cause i have an extra head for my engine put down so i would take the chance if i found some one competent and dependable and would not buss price in my a$$, question is do you have that kind of security? |
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super_cadet Street 2NR
Joined: 26 Mar 2005 Tech posts: 90 Location: Trincity My 2NRide:
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| lol..true true..but i remember readin a post where ryan garcia recommended a guy to do a 3angle valve job on a customer's car..i wanna find out who that machine guy is..i would trust that one to do the work for sure |
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dmitc Sweet on this forum
Joined: 19 Dec 2007 Tech posts: 301 Location: Barataria My 2NRide: Toyota Corolla
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| super_cadet wrote: | | lol..true true..but i remember readin a post where ryan garcia recommended a guy to do a 3angle valve job on a customer's car..i wanna find out who that machine guy is..i would trust that one to do the work for sure |
post the guy info when you do find out |
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gt4tified Riding on 16's
Joined: 13 May 2004 Tech posts: 1175 Location: diggin up in de gt4...again! My 2NRide: Toyota Celica
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Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:23 am Post subject: |
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Gains? Definitely. lets start with your gas bill.  |
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super_cadet Street 2NR
Joined: 26 Mar 2005 Tech posts: 90 Location: Trincity My 2NRide:
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Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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gt4tified, Why would a port & polish raise your gas bill????
It just increases the efficiency of air flow thru the cylinders....Is ur damn right foot will cause the increase in gas bill..lol  |
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gt4tified Riding on 16's
Joined: 13 May 2004 Tech posts: 1175 Location: diggin up in de gt4...again! My 2NRide: Toyota Celica
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Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| super_cadet wrote: | gt4tified, Why would a port & polish raise your gas bill????
It just increases the efficiency of air flow thru the cylinders....Is ur damn right foot will cause the increase in gas bill..lol  |
Assuming both you and your car have a brain, the reason is that the ecu will compensate for the increased air flow by adding a proportionate (and greater) amount of fuel for maximum efficiency of combustion. |
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super_cadet Street 2NR
Joined: 26 Mar 2005 Tech posts: 90 Location: Trincity My 2NRide:
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:06 am Post subject: |
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gt4tified,Air is measured before passing thru the head sooo..ummm..ur mistaken..
It actually increases the volumetric efficiency of the engine..more hp for same amt of mixture |
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gt4tified Riding on 16's
Joined: 13 May 2004 Tech posts: 1175 Location: diggin up in de gt4...again! My 2NRide: Toyota Celica
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Well super_cadet I was talking about blown engines where the increased volumetric efficiency provides feedback via the turbo to the amount of air induced. |
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Rodn3y Sweet on this forum
Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Tech posts: 252 Location: Trinidad My 2NRide:
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:18 am Post subject: |
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so on a normal application (non-turbo) would porting the intake result in greater gas consumption?
i was thinking that more air for the same amout of gas = leaner burn and the O2 sensor on the exhaust manifold will tell the ecu to send more fuel to the engine because its burning too lean which results in greater gas consumption.
right or wrong? |
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Knight1 Riding on 17's
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 Tech posts: 1308 Location: On terra firma My 2NRide:
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Assuming both you and your car have a brain, the reason is that the ecu will compensate for the increased air flow by adding a proportionate (and greater) amount of fuel for maximum efficiency of combustion |
Ditto.
| Quote: | gt4tified,Air is measured before passing thru the head sooo..ummm..ur mistaken..
It actually increases the volumetric efficiency of the engine..more hp for same amt of mixture |
<dies>
So wait.....let's break down what you're saying super_cadet
1) N.B. The engine is treated as an air pump for engineering analyses....
2) You've increased the volumetric eff. of the engine which means that......
3)....it can pull in more air per "breath"...or per second..and do so more than stock? (remember a forced induction unit also increases vol. eff.)....so...
4)....since it's pulling in more air....it's making more hp...WITHOUT increasing fuel???????????
DUHHHHH dipstick. Of course it's gonna increase fuel consumption.
Power = more air
More Air = more fuel.
The only way it's NOT gonna increase fuel consumption is if the pnp job does little gains to the head, as Dave rightly pointed out.
| Quote: | | It actually increases the volumetric efficiency of the engine..more hp for same amt of mixture |
Get your facts straight kiddo. Vol. Eff. has to do with the engine's ability to draw in fresh air (per unit time). Porting and polishing increases V.E. by allowing better flow of air through the intake manifold. Forced indcution (like Super and turbochragers) maximise the V.E. of an engine by literally increasing the "suction" pressure of the engine (in layman's terms).
Vol. Eff (V.E.) does not MAKE more hp for the same mixture!!!! Jeezzzzz..........  |
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sixthspeed Riding on 13's
Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Tech posts: 9
My 2NRide:
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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if some one has a template of a head that has be flow tested to PROVE that there has been gains to begin with. It will make no sense do any kind of sanpapering as you will not be sure how well the air is flowing
in short, no flow bench htne u r wasting you time. |
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gt4tified Riding on 16's
Joined: 13 May 2004 Tech posts: 1175 Location: diggin up in de gt4...again! My 2NRide: Toyota Celica
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Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| sixthspeed wrote: | if some one has a template of a head that has be flow tested to PROVE that there has been gains to begin with. It will make no sense do any kind of sanpapering as you will not be sure how well the air is flowing
in short, no flow bench htne u r wasting you time. |
While I agree in principle that a flow bench would be a good way to start, I wouldn't say that without flowing a head u r wasting your time.
The reason being that 99% of all engines are made in cast molds, so that there will always be slight factory imperfections eg, bits of excess metal at the seam of the mold, small chunks of metal missing, metal warping due to inaccurate cooling etc.
Taking the time to remove these with a dremel or sandpaper and then doing a good polish will almost always bring benefits. While the increase in VE may not always be substantial, it helps with the prevention of premature carbon build-up and sludge.
And the greatest thing is that you can actually learn to do it yourself for a fraction of what it costs to get a machine shop to do it.  |
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