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Why is filler a bad ting?
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ShIvAm
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Joined: 15 Aug 2008
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My 2NRide: Mitsubishi Lancer GSR

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:12 pm
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and how much ppl does do a GOOD body job in tnt... cause it eh soundin like plenty ppl. an Sanctifier, look like he eh no novice, apparently he kno he stuff.
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ShIvAm
Street 2NR


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My 2NRide: Mitsubishi Lancer GSR

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:15 pm
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and i guessing a proper body job go be a ton a work on a older car....
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Sanctifier
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:49 pm
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ShIvAm wrote:
...Sanctifier, look like he eh no novice...
Nope, I am a novice, especially in bodywork & painting. Plenty reading and only a little practice in it over the years.
Not selling any of my cars... and can't afford THREE custom paint jobs... at $10k-$15k or more EACH... #Shocked
So building ToyRoom (workshop)...and buying equipment...for 3 x "DIY" Projects over the next few YEARS.
Sanctifier wrote:
Then I'll have room to work...the equipment I want...AND the cars...and learn some more stuff too. Cool

BTW the ToyRoom is more important to me than the cars... and I LOVE my cars.

Details on workshop renovation, tools and cars below...

Link--> THE ASYLUM!... Workshops & Tools for DIY MadMen.

Link--> ~ Readers' Rides ~

My $0.02¢
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brakefluid
Street 2NR


Joined: 25 May 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:01 pm
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Some people that claim to have gotten an excellent job may not know if any shortcuts were taken to achieve the desired finish....at least not at the time. With any trade there are shortcuts and time is money.

Professionals know how to take these short cuts and how far to go with them. Unless you working on the car yourself, you CANNOT be guaranteed a good job unless of course the straightener gives you a warranty.
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brakefluid
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:46 am
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Bondage between filler and metal is only temporary. The metal should be epoxy coated before fillering. Of course metal preparation is the root to good fillerwork. Also, the thicker the filler, the more likely it is to crack whether visual or not. IMO going over 1/2" is overdoing it.
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Sanctifier
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:38 am
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brakefluid wrote:
..IMO going over 1/2" is overdoing it.
Filler is NOT supposed to replace correct body repair by a lazy/"con-man" straightener.
AFAIK even 1/2" is WAY too much. If the fender has 1/2"+ filler what went on with the chassis?
Sanctifier wrote:
If a flimsy panel needs 1/4"-1/2" of filler to "pass with a push"... how much "pulling" does the CHASSIS need to bring the suspension alignment back to OEM specs?

If you hit a stove with a 3,000 lb hammer at 15 mph... you don't think that the FRAME underneath is bent too Question
That means that EVERY body-shop MUST have at least some basic equipment to pull the CHASSIS back to OEM specs (or at least MEASURE it) BEFORE starting to repair the external panel, not so?

No point in paying less for a cheap 1/2" filler job. All you get is your tyres cutting down to canvas, on one side in two or three months... or even weeks. Rolling Eyes

My $0.02¢
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brakefluid
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:46 pm
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Sanctifier wrote:

AFAIK even 1/2" is WAY too much.

I disagree and stand by my statement. If you could produce a finished product from a worst case scenario with less than 1/2" filler throughout, you not just good, you supposed to be the world's most amazing videos.

I also never said that it should be used to "cover up" bad work
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Sanctifier
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:54 pm
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brakefluid wrote:
If you could produce a finished product from a worst case scenario with less than 1/2" filler throughout...
That's not my opinion, padna. That's what the REAL experts have to say about straightening and painting.
They even use 1/8" as a standard for some jobs. You're entitled to your opinion... So am I.
brakefluid wrote:
...with less than 1/2" filler throughout, you not just good, you supposed to be the world's most amazing videos...
At least we agree on that... they do belong in a "most amazing" video. They are the experts... I am a novice.
Go and argue with them if you want. They know more than you, so I'll try to follow their advice as best as I can.

Link--> Tech Tips: Using Fillers and Putties for Spot Body Repair.
Their $0.02¢... Laughing
brakefluid wrote:
I also never said that it should be used to "cover up" bad work
^ ^ ^ And I never said that you did, so don't get your knickers in a knot, padna. Rolling Eyes
My concern is the underlying CHASSIS damage that usually goes unrepaired in T&T... not your comment.

My $0.02¢ Laughing
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brakefluid
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:35 pm
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Scene meh dawg Mr. Green
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Sanctifier
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:42 am
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brakefluid wrote:
...with less than 1/2" filler throughout, you not just good, you supposed to be the world's most amazing videos...
Here are a few Paintless Dent Repair videos...with NO FILLER!... NO SANDING...and NO REPAINTING either!
You're right, they are amazing! #Shocked





It's a pity that nobody does this quality of work locally. 95% of the time, they use NO FILLER at all...
and if necessary, VERY little. Much less than 1/2 inch thick.

More important...repairs usually costs 1/4 -to- 1/3 of a normal "straighten & paint" job with pounds of filler in it!



BTW an avearage repair can usually be done in a day...or in a weekend for many jobs.

Is anybody interested in avoiding paying HUGH "excesses" on Insurance repairs?...or HIGHER PREMIUMS after they make a claim? If so, I'll keep you posted for a better & cheaper alternative.
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sigma-turbo
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:29 am
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that paintless dent removal is only good for new cars or new paint that is still flexible and you need to have the dents seen to pretty much straight away

its a good idea, alot of car yards use this method
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Sanctifier
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:26 am
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sigma-turbo wrote:
...paintless dent removal is only good for new cars or new paint that is still flexible...
^ ^ ^ That's incorrect. Rolling Eyes For VERY old cars with paint that's ancient, an electric heat gun is used if the PDR Tech thinks that paint "cracking" or "checking" will be an issue during repair. This is also an issue for panels (any age) that were repaired previously with filler and/or poor (too thick) paint films. For VERY LARGE dents (any age of paint) using a heat gun before PDR is also recommended.

Paintless Dent Repair has nothing to do with the age (or even type) of paint film. What matters is the level of ADHESION of the primer & paint film. A panel (no matter how new) with poor paint adhesion will need repainting after repair...but the METHOD used (PDR) is still the best way to do it in most cases.

Metallurgy has changed drastically over the last 30 years. Sheet-metal has much less iron in it, than cars of 15-20 years ago (or even younger.) Scratch a panel then and you would get insant rust...often within hours. That doesn't happen today. Metal STRETCHING is also less of an issue. Today's panel is made of much thinner "high-strength" steel.
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sigma-turbo
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:02 pm
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^^ thats funny

i dont know what new cars have much thinner steel (not saying there isnt)

But the steel on my freinds 1930 ford is .8mm thick the steel on my 2007 toyota is also .8 thick

Im aware of the heat gun trick,but it wont always work

I have some small dents in my mitsubishi that i asked the delete-a-dent guy to repair
he said he could do it but he would not guarantee it as the paint "could" come of later in time and he warned me that the paint could crack
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Sanctifier
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:57 pm
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^ ^ ^ A quick search for "auto high strength steel" will give you a ton of articles.
Chassis and body panels have changed drastically over the past 20-30 years.
sigma-turbo wrote:
Im aware of the heat gun trick,but it wont always work...
I didn't mean the usual DIY "heat & dry-ice" trick. This info came from Darryl Domino; a PDR Tech with over 26 years experience in bodywork & painting...and 17 years in PDR. He suggested using a heat-gun for all large dents before pulling or Paintless Dent Repair.

BTW he is also the inventor of the latest 3-stage PDR method... The Dominator II PDR System.
Click for full-size.

It uses pneumatics and high-strength adhesives to pull metal panels quickly...
and the new Dominator II (in three lengths) for final finishing.


Here's the Dominator in action on some tough dents...if you call the "black" repair, just a dent! Rolling Eyes


His $0.02¢

EDIT:
Sanctifier wrote:
Just got confirmation that my freight forwarder in Miami received my Dominator II PDR kit today.
I should get it by the end of next week...I hope!

When my ToyRoom is finished and "plumbed" for air (in a couple more months... Rolling Eyes ); I'll post a review on the Dominator PDR equipment.

YES! I will be taking in "jobs"...with average delivery in 1-day...or "Friday AM-to-Sunday PM."...

With prices much less than 1/2 the "Excess" on your Insurance Policy too Exclamation
No need to pay HIGHER Premiums after minor fender-benders
...AND STILL have to "pay through your nose" on your "Excess" anyway!
Somehow, that just doesn't seem fair IMHO.

My $0.02¢


Last edited by Sanctifier on Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:52 am; edited 6 times in total
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sigma-turbo
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:56 pm
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the delete-a-dent guy that i use has been in operation since 1991, he has the latest tools including the dominator kits and some old tools that he has developed to suit his technique

but regardless of the tools and his experience he wont guarantee that the process will work on old paint, likley the same case for all pdr techs

I know about the new sheet that new cars are being made from, my panel beater mate keeps complaining that its a pain to repair Laughing i cant remember the name of it off the top f my head though, but im pretty sure its still .8mm thick for hanging panels and 1.2-2.2mm for structural sections

hope you have fun with your new toy
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Sanctifier
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:07 pm
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sigma-turbo wrote:
...he wont guarantee that the process will work on old paint, likley the same case for all pdr techs...

hope you have fun with your new toy...

likley the same case for all pdr techs... Yup, quite likely. There are always limits to everything, I guess.

hope you have fun with your new toy... With three project cars to build... and Solodex (AutoX to you, I think) the Dominator & other PDR tools should pay for themselves AND keep me in good quality tyres for AutoX. At least that's the plan...unless I keep on blowing it all on more tools... Rolling Eyes I want a good quality lathe and milling machine for the ToyRoom eventually. Wink
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buzz
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:01 am
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^ don't bother with sigma-turbo,

when he loses an argument he'll grasp @ straws Laughing Laughing Laughing

after all he did say a 30+ yr old tire is still "good" Neutral
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Sanctifier
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:11 am
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Hi buzz. What's your opinion on paint-job costs (and quality) for minor dent repair in T&T?

Do you think there is reasonable demand (3-4 cars a month) for Paintless Dent Repair locally?
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sigma-turbo
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:41 am
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buzz wrote:
^ don't bother with sigma-turbo,

when he loses an argument he'll grasp @ straws Laughing Laughing Laughing

after all he did say a 30+ yr old tire is still "good" Neutral


firstly who's arguing ??

secondly show me where i said a 30+ year old tyre is good?? with all the hyp about waste and recycling these days any half wit knows tyres take longer to decompose than body panels


and Sanctifier if your only one of a few I think you'll do well, the community that I live in isnt a big (about 25000) and the local pdr guy that i have used is flat out

just prey for hail Laughing
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Sanctifier
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:51 pm
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^ ^ ^ No hail in the tropics I'm afraid, sigma. A lot of cars sold here though...
at least 15,000 - 18,000 per year. Over 400,000 cars for about 1.3+ million people.
sigma-turbo wrote:
...and Sanctifier if your only one of a few I think you'll do well...
Actually, I have never heard of anyone doing Paintless Dent Repair locally.

Paintless Dent Repair will never give me daily employment. I already have a full-time job.
Hopefully it'll give me reasonable extra income for my car projects, AutoX, buying tools etc.
That will be nice for a change. Very Happy
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