WHAT IS THE BEST SIZE SUBWOOFER?!

[Kongorealm]

WHAT IS THE BEST SIZE SUBWOOFER?!


Tough question, but a simple answer… NONE! For many years, 12” subs have been the highest selling subwoofer size. Why is this? I believe it is due to myths and consumers being misguided by sales people. I'm willing to bet that most people think a 10” sub cannot play as low or as loud as a 12” sub. I'll also bet that people think that 15” subs are the loudest and the clever people think that 15” aren't as “clean” or as “fast” as a 12” or smaller sub. Anybody wanna bet?

The fact is that this is all a bunch of BS, period! Let me ask a few question to get your gears turning… How many high-end home systems do you see with 15” subs? What makes a sub play lower, size or magnet or weight, or material or what? What makes a sub play louder, size or magnet or weight, or material, or does it even matter as long as you put it in a bandpass box?

Let's pretend for a moment that all subs were built exactly the same, out of the same materials and all parts will proportionate in size for the size of the driver… If this were true, then some of the myths would be true. The 15” would be louder due to its ability to displace more air, and it would have a lower resonant frequency. Since this is not the case, there are tons of variables that make all of the misconceptions full of poop!

Let's address output amplitude first. An average 10” sub has 50 square inches ( 50 in ^2) of cone area. A 12” has 75 in ^2. If a 10 has 15mm of xmax excursion capability, it will displace .017 cubic feet (ft^3). If the 12” has 10mm of xmax, it will displace the same .017 ft ^3. The 10” has 1/3 less cone area but it has 1/3 more excursion making the output of the 10” equal to the 12” . Now, what if the 10” sub handles more power? What if the 10” is more efficient? Or what if the xmax was more than 15mm in the example above? Just these 3 variables alone will make the 10” have more output volume than the 12” . This relationship can work between any 2 different size drivers.

But what about the application, specifically the enclosure? If we use the subs we just talked about in relative enclosures, the 10” may be a better choice. But what if we put the 10” in a small sealed enclosure, and we put the 12” in a properly engineered vented enclosure? Could the 12” outperform the 10” ? Possibly. It depends on the box design. EVERYTHING ALWAYS DEPENDS ON THE BOX DESIGN!!! If it were tuned low for bass extension, it would have more low bass, but maybe not more upper bass. Likewise, if is it tuned high, it may be louder than the 10” . What about a bandpass box? Bandpass boxes are the most difficult to understand. People tend to think that are the loudest type of enclosure possible. More BS! They have the capability of having a wide bandwidth and equal or lesser volume than a typical box. But some can be engineered to have a lot of gain, drastically increasing the efficiency! They normally sound like poop, but many people do not know what accurate sound is anyway. Another bad thing about bandpass enclosures is that people do not realize that not all woofers will work properly. In fact, many woofers will destroy themselves in a bandpass and you'll never hear it coming until it is too late…

Now, let's address low bass extension. Some woofers play lower than others. Some tiny desk top computer speakers actually play fairly low. Some 5” -8” subs in home speakers play very, very low. And yet some 15” or 18” pro audio speakers that musicians use do not play as low as an average 6” x 9” coaxial. This is 100% intentional by the manufacturer. Generally speaking, it takes more moving mass to play lower frequencies, which reduces the output volume. Like I mentioned above, EVERYTHING ALWAYS DEPENDS ON THE BOX DESIGN! Granted, a 4” woofer would have a real tough time playing as low as a 12” subs, but anything is possible. Look at Bose. At one point in time, they were probably using 70% or more 4” drivers in all of their loudspeakers.

Finally, let's talk about efficiency. First of all, take all of the specs you read and throw them out the window. Are some companies lying and inflating their specifications. You betcha! But others may manipulate the specification without being dishonest. For example, if a sub is rated at 90dB, where, when and how is it rated. Where meaning where on a frequency chart or at what bandwidth? Is that an average from 50Hz -100Hz? Is that at 100Hz only? Or is it 1kHz? Who knows? It could be anywhere. When meaning when what amount of power is applied. Is it with 1 watt at 1 meter (1w/ 1m )? Is it at 2.83 volts at one meter (2.83v/ 1m ) which is higher? As for How it's rated, sometimes I've even seen subs rated at ½ meter rather than the standard 1 meter which would obviously increase the specification radically! A bunch of marketing hype missed with the lack of a standard procedure and boundaries means that all specs are worthless and must not be considered since no accurate comparison can be made.

So, with all of this myth busting, what is my exact point? Just what I said in the first line… There is NO best size for a subwoofer. Some materials tend to sound better – I happen to like paper for sound quality due to the damping qualities. I tend to like smaller subwoofers due to their ability to sound big and for their transient response. On the flip side, I am currently rebuilding my truck with an R1-15, a 15” subwoofer with an aluminum cone, just to prove that it can be as snappy as a 10” woofer.

Well, there you have it… No woofer size is “the best” and the enclosure design is everything! On the down side, you probably did not get the answer you were looking for. On the up side, now you know you can use whatever size you want and most of the time, you can get the results you are looking for…

[Kongorealm]

Tuners,

I searched the thread and did not see anything like this so I posted it. While researching on the internet I saw this read and it looked good, it helped me decide on what speaker I would be installing in my system.

Hope this helps every and anyone who may need this advice...

[Firewall]

#9

http://forums.trinituner.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=149047

but good reiteration

[rude boy rudy]

kongorealm nice read so what size sub u using and what brand if u dont mind me asking

[weedja2]

I find 10's sounds best though

[Kongorealm]

My original system was stolen some time ago, which was two 12" W3's. I am now in the process of building a system once more (a smaller system as budget is low) which comprises of 1 10" RF HX2 Punch after reading this article...

[Kongorealm]

Firewall, I saw this article and must say it was very informative but I still thought it putting this read up might of been helpful as well...

[bargin boi]

[ruffneck_12]

me has a theory, the lower frequencies come furthest from the center so the bigger the diameter the more frequencies it can cover? just askin doh shoot meh

[SmokeyGTi]

^^ not really.
you average 6x9" can play a wider range of frequencies (eg, 40Hz - 14kHz) where as the average 12" sub will cover a much smaller range (25-300Hz)

[Mezeker]

but Smokeygti.. isn't that the idea of a subwoofer? to only play the low frequencies??

[~˜VëgŲ˜~]

nice read......

[crazybalhead]

Box design is not EVERYTHING.

You cannot take a small driver and tune the enclosure very low, lower than the resonance frequency, you will get too much cone motion, distorted sound and more than likely a damaged woofer.

And cacapoopoo bose was mentioned a a reference. bleh.

[DJ Q]

[ruffneck_12]

excursion maybe?

[DJ Q]

Have a read

[nemesis]

I think the enclosure design matters a lot, but is not everything. Also, a 15 with the same attack as a 10? I'd like to hear that after you install. If comparing the same line of products I don't see that. The extra moving mass could be a problem with the larger diameter.
Also, does anyone test the response of a sub in the box outside the car before installing? Vehicle characteristics matter a lot depending on what you want out of your sub. Available path length, materials in the vehicle etc.
Just what I think.

[Shooter_boy_J]

15 inch all the wayyy!

[avenash1]

I've got a Powerbass 15" brand new, in slot ported box built to specs.....the model of the sub is Powerbass 15D 3XL and its 2000w dual coil....... selling box and speaker for 2800 NEG........contact me 756-1000.......

[atomik]

Kongorealm, nice read! i think perception of the size of a subwoofer to many is an ungoing factor, i have been guilty in the past of assuming the bigger the better as a nubie into the car audio thing, i've heard 10's, 12's and 15's, however to me 12" has always been in favour both in looks and performance!

For a while i ran a 12" RF P3 in a ported box tuned to i think 32-33hz, gave immaculate lows, however recently a friend of mine is doing an install by the very same installer of my car audio, who is claiming an RE 8" sub will sound better and give lows as my RF! i was a bit surprised on hearing that and frankly i would have to hear it to believe it! Do any of u guys think this is possible?

Neways my next install will be costly but i believe it will shake well (2) T2 12" D4 Rockford Power ser...

i dont intentionally mean to be biased but i believe RF has to be the sweetest , lowest and cleanest bassline of all times! in my view!

[southside connections]

belive it^^^


driver selection is critical with selection of box design

choosing the right driver for your application can make the difference between output and sq in particular suited to the vehicle it's installed in also

the sub and box is 1/2 the story, the other half is power/amplifer control and vehicle

hope you guys take this into consideration for your next build

[southside connections]

oh wait, the box type chosen will have a bandwith of 20hz-80hz +/- 3db and should be around 75% as loud as the p3 atomic but alot smoother and lower

every thing is a compromise, it can be made to go loud , but then you sacrifice the output quality

[Kongorealm]

RF does gives you some sweet lows, as well as JL Audio. I would have to hear that 8" before I can say it would beat a 12" outright.

I mean a 12" has more cone area right. Even if the other factors are in favour of the 8" like, FS, Ots, xmax and etc. If the power handling of both subs are near equal, its hard for me to believe. But I would not say it's impossible.

Also, I do find RF old school subs are better than the new ones, the ones that were made in the USA, just my opinion. There were underrated...does anyone share this view?

[southside connections]

i never said it would beat a 12, in terms of loud, but in terms of lows vs sq and transitional response

it may be up to 75% as loud

[Kongorealm]

southside connections, I know you did not say that, as was responding to Atomik as were you...

I get what your saying though, you have a point.

[atomik]

southside connections, lol cuz my padna get me scared when he said the 8" RE would shake my 12"RF yuh cud say wat, u kno that box u build was bess! my bro-in law has d old school pio (black) 12" in it and hmmm
but let him enjoy lol!
the reason i haven't check you just yet is cuz of funding! lookin at a huge system 20k-30k t2's d4.
Kongorealm, actually id like to agree with you statement that oldschool RF are btr quality subs, my new model P3 gave out on me, well i jammed the crap out of it but in the end the entire cone shattered n almost buss meh head wile drivin with the back seat down
but never the less RF all the way....car audio for fanatiks

[atomik]

southside connections, btw yea it (RE 8") shud be smoother, cuz i think the port on my box cud have been a bit smaller, to eliminate a bit of ported noise!

[Picasso]

The most impressive small sub setup I've heard was a pair of JL audio 8's. I swore there was a RF or a MTX 12 in the trunk. It was powered by a DHD mono Block . I heard it again today and still can't get over the fact that a pair of 8" subs could sound so dam good.

[ruffneck_12]

oh meh padnah have 2 pioneer 4" runnin off he deck in he barber shop, dem ting puttin out some devious lowwwwzz, lower dan a logitech 4" an lower and louder dan my hifonics 12 IMO

[DJ Q]

1) Anything can sound better than a logitech

2) Something have to be wrong with your 12 if a 4" is getting lower.