TTASA Time Attack - Camden - 5th July

zmmaracing · Ricer Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Tech posts: 28 My 2NRide:

X2,If it was really dangerous, the RAV4 would not have passed the scrutineering. I understand where you and other racers are coming from. Safety is NO.1. I've been doing driving school with Tanko Baboolal. He has also driven the SUV on this track several times and rates it highly for handling. But as we all say, the vehicle is just the machine,the driver has the control. I'm a novice driver but this is no limitation to exercise caution on the track. To my knowledge,I did not recall any of the wheels lifting off the track or running off. Thanks for the heads up though! Mr. Green

zmmaracing · Ricer Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Tech posts: 28 My 2NRide:

Didn't really get a chance to walk around and take pictues. These are just a few I got from my vicinity. If I get time I also have some video footage I'll post up.

rcadiz · Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:13 pm Post subject:

zmmaracing · Ricer Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Tech posts: 28 My 2NRide:

rcadiz,This is not an argument. All I am saying is that I registered, passed the scrutineering and went out onto the track and had fun without any accidents. I knocked 8 seconds off my time. Only for the solodex guys, it seemed to be a problem to enter. I understand the issues of body roll and the higher center of gravity but I did not push the vehicle to the limit with those things in mind. I understand where you guys are coming from, accidents do happen. But with proper training, the risk is reduced.

professor · Street 2NR Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Tech posts: 36 My 2NRide:

While each organization is responsible for their rules and regulations, I would hate to think that there would be no Trucks, Toyotas, Nissans, BMW etc running the Paris Dacca rally again, based on their height etc.
The last time I looked they were not cars, but more SUV types (highly modified of course) Can I Solodex in a Suzuki x 4 or whatever the # is ?

This is not to start a fight with anyone or challange their regulations, I am more in a devil's advocate mode trying to stimulate discussion.

MG Man · Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:25 am Post subject:

rcadiz · Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:51 am Post subject:

No arguments agreed...Keep in mind i am simply commenting on my personal views.

Firstly because you were allowed to run doesn't mean that it was right or safe. Not taking anything away from TTASA and coupled with the fact that i did not see the course so .... but in much the same way as you can pass a HP Police car doing 160km/hr on the highway and they don;t stop you does not make what you are doing right or safe.

The solodex guys i am sure do not make it a problem as much as they would like to stay on the side of safety and low risk. We have all had issues in our clubs that make us sometimes more strict in order to reduce the risk of incidents and keep up a safety track record. The same way TTASA will stipulate drag cars in certain brackets to have various levels of safety is the same way TTRC ensures a minimum level of safety with rallying and then of course CARS is very much within their right to put certain rules in place in order to safe guard their name and safety record. Remember we are all fighting for sponsorship, race locations, and support and part of this is to maintain a healthy track record.

You might not have pushed the vehicle that day but the mere fact that you knocked 8 sec of your first run means that you were going for faster times. This is when accidents do happen - i challenge any competitor to disagree with me there. Whether you are driving a highly modified vehicle or your daily driver you are considered a competitor in these types of events. Yes you would not have been going 200 m/hr but its all relative to the vehicle you are in. A vehicle with a higher center of gravity presents more of a risk. These vehicles do compete all over the world but are equipped with highly modified suspension to cater for weight transfer and greater body roll. They are also fitted with cages, seats, harness, etc.....

My point here is that you seem to think that because you passed scrutineering for 1 event means that its ok to compete regardless. CARS have their rules in place - maybe strict but they are there for a reason. No disrespect to TTASA - they allowed you to run based on their event - the risk at the end of the day is with you and the event organizers. But let me ask you if TTRC allowed you to run Rally Trinidad in the Rav 4 would you do it? I would like to believe that common sense would prevail over you thinking that you would only go the speed you feel comfortable with.

Again don't interpret this as me trying to sound like i know everything. Rather its food for thought. Everyone is looking for a chance to compete in a motorsport event but we will surely be a major risk to ourselves and our future if we don't put safety as an absolute priority. Yes you did not roll the car but it does not mean that the risk of damage and injury to you was not much higher than a fully prepped race car with cage, suspension, tuning, seats, etc etc....Safety is about eliminating risk - not about peoples personal opinion of comfort and control.

zmmaracing · Ricer Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Tech posts: 28 My 2NRide:

rcadiz, So at the end of it all,no SUV's/ vehicles with high centers of gravity should be allowed in these events? I understand your point of even though I passed the scrutinerring, doesn't mean it is 100% safe to take part in the event.

In my view,all vehicles street legal or not is NOT 100% safe. Why judge a car by only looking at it? The only test to verify a vehicles safety is by driving it. Have you driven a Rav4 on this particular course. Don't hate on it totally.

I will not enter this Rav4 on a rally course because it was not engineered for that type of driving.

Time attack is an event where only one vehicle is allowed to go through a track. It is normally not more than 3 minutes, in this event[ 3 laps ]. In this time period the vehicle is not stressed out to fail and lower the credibility of the brakes etc. It is up to me to use my discretion.

As you said you are entitled to your views, so am I. We all know that speed isn't everything because last Sunday at the Solodex, Tanko's stock Chevy Joy did better times than significantly faster cars. Therefore, it has a lot to do with the driver. So knocking 8 seconds of my time doesn't mean I was going faster but in fact working my lines better, braking differently and getting the best out of the apex.

Remember I'm a novice. I'm still learning. This is food for thought. I appreciate any advice. And I think personally, if Tanko, my advanced driving school teacher, thought that the RAv4 was unfit for the course he wouldn't have let me entered this event.

integra · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:15 pm Post subject:

Ok ladies enuff now!!

lol

Very Happy

next!!

zmmaracing · Ricer Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Tech posts: 28 My 2NRide:

integra,

link · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:22 pm Post subject:

so I'm wondering what's keeping TTASA from announcing the date of the next TIME ATTACK. Exclamation

better do that NOW rather than wait one week before......
Wink

zmmaracing · Ricer Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Tech posts: 28 My 2NRide:

link,I don't think anything has been finalized for another Time Attack for the year according to TTASA'S calendar.

Here's a link to it:
http://www.ttasaonline.com/upload/ttasa-calendar.pdf

And the time attack event was announced more than one week before Sunday. Many of TTASA members met at Camden almost three Sundays in a row to prepare the venue.

tr1ad · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject:

wait wait wait...a rav 4 was allowed to enter time attack???

What d fack wrong with these people

integra · Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject:

That sure closed this thread up!!!
Ladies, Hmmmmmm...

Rolling Eyes

SubaBlu · Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:03 am Post subject:

I think every sport has its required equipment, and there must be some boundaries set to make the competition interesting for sponsors,spectators, competitors, etc.

examples below:

TTPBA Offshore power boat racing in Trinidad, surely a lake boat or flat bottom boat would be very unsafe, and not competitive. The classes now are speed classes, but I don't think they will allow dingys in the under 50mph class. If you want to race a dingy, get a bunch of dingys together, and have a dingy race.

CARS - SOLODEX, I think there could definitely be a pick-up and SUV class. SUVs and pickups do not roll by turning a corner hard, they understeer before that or spin. If they hit ANYTHING during those events, they will roll over. In SOLODEX, there are no obstacles to instigate a rollover as far as I can see. HOWEVER, if they allowed this class, there may be 25 entries, and it may end up stretching out the day, and boring the spectators, while only those drivers catch their kicks. Yes there are slow groups in SOLODEX, and that is where I started, and thats what gets people to buy higher performance CARS, and move up.

CIRCUIT RACING- TIME ATTACK ROAD COURSE- HILL CLIMB. These events are on courses or roads where there are sometimes baricades, curbs, drains, ditches, trees, that would make for a definite roll-over, where a car would not normally roll-over. Secondly who wants to see 20 100hp cars crawl up a hill? No offense to lower power cars, but motorsport is supposed to be exciting, and the calibre of entrants should be set, so that it makes for an exciting day, and not like a miss daisy event.

RALLY, much the same as the above, but on gravel, a slow car can still excite a crowd, not to mention you CANNOT rally without a roll cage, and a lot of other safety equipment.

I am sorry, but if you want to pull off an event that will grow, it must have the right equipment running to get a crowd, and build a crowd for the next, and next event. Let the 4x4 club have a hill climb for 4x4s then. But don't encourage vehicles that don't fit the event all things considered.

There are 500 plus Sti's, Evo's, VR4's, Pulsars, Skylines, RX8's, RX7's, 350Z's, Type R's, and other cars that are built for these kinds of events, so why not motivate those owners to participate, and leave miss daisy, for treasure hunt rally's. I am not dissing treasure hunts, navigational rally, or cannonballs here, but please see my point, as valid.

I am not involved in any clubs classifications decisions for entrants, but I think each club needs to set limitations, and enforce them.

link · Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:02 am Post subject:

slimshiney · Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:52 am Post subject:

wagonrunner · Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:18 pm Post subject:

link actually made sense? Shocked

If he does that more often, I simply wont be able to process it.

well said though.

SubaBlu · Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:04 pm Post subject:

Link,
I am not dissing the slow guys, I am saying a place and time for everything.

Solodex is the place to spin out, and damage nothing, and learn the limits of any car, with ROOM TO RUN OFF SAFELY, and go again till you get the braking, or turning right, knowing your brake fade point, your tire limits etc..

A "slower" car, with "softer" suspension can more easily loose control in a dexterity, time attack, or SOLODEX, or just swerving from a dog in the road on the way home.

Putting guys on a road with ditches on both sides, leaves no room for error, but a lot of room for catastrophie !!!

Secondly, have the driving school day taylored to certain classes of cars, or road cars "quote unquote", AND on a separate day. Let the "new guy" come around his "new guy" peers on the same "level", and learn without having him "feel bad" when a "Pro" in a slow or faster car does something that looked like it was effortless.

The biggest problem us Trinis have with entering motorsport events, especially SOLODEX, is the guy with the 400WHP EVO, doing 12.0 quarter miles, (Supposedly) does not enter a SOLODEX, because he feels the pressure will be on him to perform, and he does not want to "embarrass" himself, so makes up excuses why not to enter, does not want to damage his new tires, or whatever. But he has no problem doing 235kmph with his partners down the highway after a party.

Lets not make him "push it" in a "dangerous" environment with expensive or life threatening consequences when they end up upside down in a ditch at OUR Time Attack, instead of knocking down some cones, and going again ...... ARC area.

So I suggest you hold driving school at ARC, and NOT mix driving school into a competition event, thus extending the day, or reducing the competition runs the competitors catered to run.

Time and place.

By encouraging "green" drivers into a confined road environment, is like encouraging street racing. I understand a lot of people were speeding around that time attack course during the week leading up, which is essentially illegal road racing, endangering themselves, but most likely endangering some innocent person going to work on that PUBLIC road.

I hear what you're saying, so why not do a FAST course at ARC instead? Sprinklers and all !!!

Ignorant Ignis · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject:

very well said subablu.....