quick starlet!

[-LiNkS-]

[shinakuma]

U can run on d qtrmile without an lsd gbox why does dat prevent u from running ?? How much whp u have? U run impressive against d soarer

[xtech]

[reddo_tuner]

xtech, good question

[reddo_tuner]

Taken from toyotagtturbo.com

[haydn28]

[xtech]

300whp Jamaica style

Project not finished for updates visit
http://www.toyotagtturbo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52987

Background
The GT Turbo is a dying breed in Jamaica. Unlike Europe where there is a constant flow of Starlets here there is a three year import restriction. This means the last legal EP82 to enter our shores was in 1999 and the last EP91 would be 2003. Back in the mid-2000s Starlet tuning hit its peak in terms of power output, tuning development and popularity. Right now its a known quantity allowing for anyone with a budget to buy and make a high horsepower Starlet. Over the past year or two there has been a resurgence in demand for the GT Turbo due to its low cost and high levels of performance potential. With basic modifications the average Starlet can generate 200whp. Hardcore owners have been able to exploit the 5E combination to make impressive horsepower numbers and quarter-mile times.

The Starlet community is a small one in Jamaica. As I've said on my own personal site, hardcore.ep91.com, it became a very factionalized situation with tuners hiding information from each other on grounds of ego and profit. However, in more recent times as their popularity has dropped, the information flow has been more relaxed. Most Starlets have fallen into the hands of performance faithfuls and this is where my story sort of began. I've been associated with this car from its previous owners.

On this site EPs are new entity, in Jamaica, Starlet tuning has evolved without a lot of the niceties you UK guys enjoy. Back then there were no off the shelf pistons and rods. Power had to be made with what was available. To give you one example, the common turbocharger was the Garrett as these were cheap from any junkyard, but as the Impreza moved stateside and secondhand Mitsubishi turbochargers off eBay are now more common.

Click for full-size.

The car
The car was initially owned by my friend Colin Morris, who brought in the car from Japan. It was converted to a high compression 5E-FHTE when his original engine died. It went on to win our local 14-second drag class. As the owner upgraded to an Evolution the car was sold to another friend, who eventually began to scrap it for a Motorsports project. It was eventually rescued by the current owner sans engine, gearbox, and in pieces. Left with no choice, it had to be rebuilt, at which point I was drafted into the project.

The goal is simple, 300whp, a feat easily achievable on the stock engine internals. Recently there have been questions about the ability of the stock motor to achieve such figures on this site. The truth of the matter is that 300whp from a stock 5E in Jamaica is so simple most people don't bother to even document it. As I did over on my home site wheelsjamaica with the AE111 Levin/Trueno I will document the build up to make it a definitive 5E thread. I'll try to answer all the relevant questions I can while providing insight into Jamaican tuning.

The 5E
I was initially one of the first people in Jamaica to go 5E. This was about '99-'00. I went to the 5E when I lost my EP91 4E-FTE. Since I couldn't find a Glanza engine I opted for a 5E bottom half. My experience with the 5E was not initially a great one, as I went through several motors learning how it worked because there was not a lot of knowledge outside of Japan. However I recognized the potential something I passed on to Noel Rhone, our local Starlet Guru. All I have on the 5E is again on hardcore.ep91.com, but I'll give you a quick rundown.

There are two 5Es, a FE, and a later FHE, and even within those are several variants, ranging from ACIS equipped models, to coil-pack engine. The 5E is a combination of the older 3E and the 4E. 5E-FEs have the thinner connecting rods. The deck height is taller than the 4E to give the 5E its extra displacement, and the ACIS heads have slightly more aggressive camshafts. Much like i discovered the 5E has a bad reputation here in Jamaica. Its known to be an unreliable engine that easily destroys con-rod bearings and pistons. Over my experience I've come to understand the engine and just like anything new or different you have to know what you're doing. Its not just a matter of throwing stuff together. The bottom-line though is that if you want to make more than 300whp the increase in displacement can support it. There is more than enough evidence that if pushed a properly built 5E can make 400whp+. I might even dare say the 500 range.

From my experience there are three reasons why you'd use the 5E;
1)You want over 300whp
2)You already have a 5E
3)You have no engine and that's what is available to you.

My first 300whp was my friend Juice. He was actually the one that connected me to this site. Juice damaged his 4E and was convinced to go 5E. His car runs stock internals using 4E-FTE pistons and two headgaskets. It uses a rather small IHI/Garrett combination. Using an eManage Blue it was programmed to 298whp before my eyes by my tuner and friend David Diedrick. His engine has since been rebuilt allowing me to confirm its contents hadn't changed since then. He had posted his 'controversial figures' and eManage file on the old GTTurbo site a while back.

The Story so far
The car has actually been running for a while now, until last week. The owner was anxious to get it on the road, but since he got it in parts and sans drivetrain he bought an already prepped 5E engine and gearbox. Unlike me, he opted not to pull the engine down before installation. The turbo of choice was the td04L off a WRX, but I told him not to bother using that on the 5E because it would be too small. The 5E has very high cylinder pressures due to its FE head and therefore lots of exhaust energy, more so than most 1500cc engines. A friend, as fate would have it, crashed his STi and we scrapped the td05-16g off that car. The next step was the manifold. Rather than use the standard 5E N/A manifold the owner decided to have a proper tubular manifold built using the runners from the 4AGE20v. It was cheap , and while I worried about the size of the runners, on the road it turned out to be fine with the car hitting boost as low as 3000rpm.

Then bad luck. While he sorted out the management the headgasket failed flooding cylinder four. Unable to compress the coolant the car bent a connecting rod, but made it home fine. This turned out to be good news as the engine when pulled apart revealed several issues. The engine was used, and had been sitting down for at least a 6 months or so, meaning it needed to be refreshed and this is where the whole thing starts. I'll be documenting the 5E build up and its eventual 300whp.

Stage One: Clean up

On the right is a 5EFE rod originally in the engine. It was damaged by hydro-lock. To the left are the new stock 5EFHE rod to be used.

Stock 5E pistons. Not to be used. The normal route is to shave these down for a custom CR...

...but we will be using these, stock 4EFTE pistons.

The 4EFTE oil pan and pick up.

Factory head, throttle body, cams, and larger injectors 460cc.

TD05 Turbocharger from a WRX STi

...after some discussion the owner decided to have a tubular manifold made up. Its made from the OEM 4AGE20v headers,
so we know it will last with the proper bracing.

All that power meant the stock mounts had to be converted to Teflon inserts done locally.
A rough ride but necessary with these power figures.

The management system of choice, in Australia.


From the compressor map you can see that the tdo5-16g peak efficiency (77%) is in the 6psi to 18psi range. This would be the optimum range. However you can run as high as 28psi and still have decent enough efficiency, only a 5% drop off, in performance. On the road the car was able to achieve 7psi by 3000rpm without a proper tune, so I suspect depending on tune we should be able to run between 15psi and 20psi to achieve the goal.
Boost doesn't destroy internals, detonation is a bigger engine killer than anything. You can run as much boost as you like, as long you accept the fact that if you detonate, the motor will go bang in an instant. One of the questions I get often from GT Turbo is "how much boost can I run?" This has long led me to believe that most on this site don't understand how a turbocharger works. The comment that a td05-16g can't produce 300whp, further confirms the level of understanding of many members. These are the same people who cant believe a CT9 can't make X amount of power.

Boost is an irrelevant concept many times in these discussions. All turbochargers make boost. What makes a CT9 at 10psi make less power than a td05-16g at 10psi isn't boost, its CFM. The CFM rating is the airflow rating of a turbocharger. You need to know this when getting a turbocharger. That CFM determines how much air the turbo can move at maximum, which in turn can tell you how much power it can make. CFM = airflow = air available to make power. Most companies list the max CFM of their turbocharger. So for people to determine that X turbo cant make X power without even looking/understanding the specifications of a turbocharger or basing it off boost pressure is just silly.

Now, I'm not going to claim brilliance because the reason I know how this works is because
a)I discussed this with a turbo expert years ago in relation to the CT9
b)he recommended the Maximum Boost book to me which explains it all, mathematically.
When you have a turbocharger there are two options for power production 1)Increase boost on stock turbocharger till you reach or near the edge of the compressor efficiency
2)Get a higher flowing turbocharger. Simple and basic, but you've got to understand how the the numbers on a turbocharger work.

As far as I know, no one here has ever seen a CT9 compressor map, so I often ask on what basis do people believe that the CT9 is blowing hot air at 15psi. The truth is the same reason we're having this discussion, a friend told you, or you heard it somewhere. So this now comes down to who you believe. The UK tuner who cant get past 133whp because he keeps telling you the CT9 is useless at 15psi, or the JDM tuner who hits 172whp at the same psi because he has measured the outlet temps and figured out that 15psi is smack dab in the middle of the efficiency range of that turbocharger. And if you've ever looked at a compressor map you can easily see how wide the peak efficiency island is for a turbocharger.

Fortunately, we do have specs on the MHI td05-16g. The small td05-16g is rated at 520cfm, using MHI 1bar/60% efficiency rating. The larger td05-16g is rated at 580cfm. According to the manufacturer specifications that's enough airflow for 350bhp. If you count in the 10% loss for wheel hp, that's still over 300whp. This is also not an absolute, but a rough figure not taking into consideration the Volumetric Efficiency of the host engine. The better or worse the VE of the engine is will determine what side of that figure you end up on. The td04L is rated at 250hp for its flow rating. However, like i said, I've seen cars on the low side of that, and others on the high side. There was a beautiful example of the latter in GT a few years back where they churned out 278whp. I just read that Magazine article where Dave tuned a EP91 to similar figures.

I do not use boost to make power, so to speak. What I do is try and get the turbocharger into its maximum efficiency island and tune from there. Why? Because that peak island is where the turbocharger is making the least hot air, that would possibly reduce power. On page 2 I put up the compressor map for the turbocharger being used and gave the specifications in relation to the tune there. The common UK trend is simply to just keep turning up the boost which will most likely move the turbo into the more inefficient areas of its flow, ie: more heat from the compression function.

My only concern with this build is the management the owner is using. Due to costs he's opted for the Microtech, a system, poorly supported, and that hasn't proved itself well here in Jamaica, or from other comments elsewhere in the Caribbean. I don't believe the Microtech can handle what we are going to throw at it. However, due to its reputation, no-one is going to buy it from us and the owner has opted to struggle with it rather than purchase an eManage Ultimate.

Let me also comment on the "how much boost can I run?"

You can run as much boost as you want until a) the turbocharger goes supersonic b) until you reach the mechnical limits of the turbocharger or the engine.

Point B is very important because its not generally boost that will kill your engine, its detonation. You can run as much boost as you want for as long as you want as long as the engine doesn't detonate. The second it pings, its the shockwave from that process that will break the piston or cause bearings to fail. That's not a function directly of the boost. Its how good the tune has been to maintain the optimum a/f ratio given the circumstances. What forged internals do, in most cases, is mask poor tuning. Your car is still probably detonating, but because the stuff is stronger it just shrugs off the shocks, to a point.

The other thing is, you don't have to believe me, which is the point of this post. I am not screaming superiority, just trying to inform.

Click for full-size.

Engine now complete with all factory parts.

Click for full-size.

Click for full-size.

The larger SR20DET has been adapted to fit the STANDARD 4E-FTE intake manifold.

[eliteauto]

nice link

[sadique]

very nice!!
ah feelin to buy ah starlet

[A172]

[AllTrac]

i think a172 and hayden should team up and open a garage, they are very knowledge in auto tuning and they depart their knowledge willingly. It should be called

"sam & frodo tuning"

or

"shire motorsports"

how about:

"tiptoe auto" ?

finally:

"1greng 2horn racing"

any one should fit nicely, either way my engine rebuild done book with allyuh

[haydn28]

going for 300 WHP + ......



new rebuilt 5ehfte

Click for full-size.

TRD head gasket

Click for full-size.

HKS P plate and clutch no spring.. ultra fierce

Click for full-size.

Haltech E6X , for now..id prefer a apexi Power FC though......

Click for full-size.

turbonectics t3t4

[AllTrac]

[haydn28]

[A172]

[honda hoe]

[AllTrac]

[Tipster]

haydn28, I am hoping that the engine that is in your car is not the same as in d pics you post cause i saw a black starlet beat you going and coming over the weekend Everybody here know the starlet it was on tuner a while back for sale. His post said his car was doing something like 180whp i stand corrected but he didnt make 200whp for sure. The only way i can see you making 300whp+ on the dyno is if you put yuh mouth on the dyno and run dat.

[shinakuma]

[haydn28]

^^ thanks shinakuma will check u tomorrow,

[haydn28]

[KTS]

[Tipster]

haydn28, Yuh pull out dem excuses from yuh glove box dey boy. But anyway i understand wat you are saying with driving around with 300whp everyday, but i didnt expect you to drive around with 75whp either cause at a certain point i was wondering if KTS was running a non-turbo car.
And by d way it isnt hard to find out who you when yuh posting yuh whole life story on tuner Mr "3NE2NR is my LIFE"

[AllTrac]

[reddo_tuner]

[haydn28]

[shinakuma]

A172 i feel u better tag along wit mr.haydn28 dis wkend he might need ur help u know d only way 2 beat a greddy tuned car iz wit a greddy tuned car . Dont 4get A172 i have 2 chk over ur 20psi pump gas tune and make it into a Q16 tune. This time dont 4get 2 bring d 5 gallons.

[shinakuma]

[honda hoe]

shinakuma,

tobo is for engines dat cyah make powah!



when u tuning meh kpro boy?

[A172]

yeh i get de fuel yesterday

go check yuh Friday