moving on up

NarendZORCE · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:30 pm Post subject:

Examples of modifications that will cause a class bump:

• Coil Over (adjustable ride height) shocks
• Full Race Camber kits.
• Race modified suspension mount points
• Ride height less than 5” from the driver’s side floor pan
• Wheels over 7.5”
• Adjustable brake proportioning valve(s).

NarendZORCE · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject:

Alright Amir, spill the beans on the Ignis... Laughing

Ignorant Ignis · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject:

non of the above Laughing

sirbill · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject:

Team Loco · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:56 pm Post subject:

How do the rules apply to dexes held in other countries? Can we benchmark?

sirbill · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:58 am Post subject:

A class like AS (A stock) means you can change nothing but the front sway bar, a shock absorber and a few small insignificant other things. Any class with an 'S' at the end is essentially stock and no R compounds allowed at all.

I think a few of the cars well in solodex would not qualify for a stock class - more street touring or a prepared class. So having such cars run with others that are truly stock is a bit of an advantage.

Since EP is the only class we have that essentially allows anything, then a few more cars should be there, but would get wasted by the StiEvos unless they modified well beyond a reasonable budget for a weekend sport. Hence classes like AP or AST to allow the stock modified cars to run in prepared classes with cars of like power.

Solodex is getting bigger in attendance, so maybe it is time to revisit classing. One reason we had the classes so shaved down and lenient with respect to mods (and scrutineering!) was because there were so few entrants in the earlies, so more classes would not be constituted.

In the US, there are street touring classes that allow more things than stock classes to accommodate guys who have made changes to their cars that you would usually find for street preps- lowered - coil overs etc etc etc. But never R compound allowed in such classes.

E,g (from scca 2008 rule book for stock (?S) cars):

STOCK CATEGORY
Cars running in Stock Category must have been series produced with
normal road touring equipment capable of being licensed for
normal road use in the United States, and normally sold and
delivered through the manufacturer’s retail sales outlets in the
United States. Car models not specifically listed in any Stock
Category class must have been produced, and must meet the above
requirements and been sold through normal U.S. dealerships, in
quantities of at least 1,000 in a 12- month period in order to be
eligible for the Stock Category.

Except for modifications authorized below, Stock Category cars must
be run as specified by the factory with only standard equipment as
defined by these Rules. This requirement refers not just to
individual parts, but to combinations thereof which would have
been ordered together on a specific car. Any other modifications or
equipment will place the car in Street Touring, Street Prepared,
Street Modified, Prepared or Modified Categories as appropriate.
Configurations involving damaged parts (e.g., blown fuses) are not
typically authorized by the manufacturer and hence are not allowed.

STREET TOURING CATEGORY
The Street Touring category of vehicle modifications is meant to fit
between the current Stock and Street Prepared categories. This
category provides a natural competition outlet for auto enthusiasts
using affordable sports sedans equipped with common suspension,
engine, and appearance modifications which are fully legal and
compatible with street use anywhere in the country. “Dress-up”
items such as chrome dipsticks and non-standard filler caps are
permitted, provided they serve no other purpose.

MG Man · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:47 am Post subject:

Bill, the R debate raged because when those tyres became cheaply available, many people wanted to make it an allowable mod........thing is, I remember when it was said Rs were not allowed particular on stock cars because of the increased propensity to cause rollover on stock suspensions (reference was made to SCCA) (Bill I think u were at that meeting)......then all of a sudden the story changed and Rs became accepted..........and all of a sudden, rule change, Rs allowed across the board....and some of the ppl who were against, suddenly were for...go figure

sirbill · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:01 am Post subject:

Whatever caused the use of them in our "stock" or lesser classes (roll over, cheapness), the fact is R = time gained, more so than other non allowable mods like coil overs etc. So the most significant change is free and the lesser are not. In hind site (and for those with the foresight to oppose), this does not seem to make sense.

Another thing is, scrutineering seems limited to - battery checks, carpet checks and brake tests. Safety oriented. No one seems to check for class rules. I know all these things are very difficult to govern, and the usual comments about lack of help, volunteers etc. probably still apply, but as the sport grows up, maybe the rules and governance should too. The fun factor in Dex is undeniable, especially where there are not too many alternatives for those who like to race other than in a straight line. But the competition could be skewed to a certain standard set of results that in a properly enforced environment, could vary more and increase the overall fun factor and sense of achievement of all.

wagonrunner · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:14 pm Post subject:

sirbill · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject:

I am not sure what you mean by "it did not happen". What did not happen? There was no difference in times running on R's vs non R's? If that is so, that "fact" flies in the face of accepted evidence world wide to the contrary.

If it didn't happen, maybe:

1. Driver first time on R's and does not know how to drive on them (spinning tyres on any compound is a waste of time)
2. The surface at dex is so loose that compound makes no difference.
3. Some other yet unexplained factor.

Can you please expound on the details and findings of these tests so we could all be on the same page as far as this discussion is concerned. Same car, same driver, same day, two different tyres compounds, no change in times?

sirbill · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:48 pm Post subject:

Oh, OK, now caught the bolding in the quote Very Happy

. Roll over did not happen?

wagonrunner · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:59 pm Post subject:

sirbill · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject:

Yup, something along these lines need to be done. Some constant is required against which SoloDex style car potential can be judged. We just need a Stig though to take the human variable out of it.

Rudman · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject:

MG Man · Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject:

I ran my car on street Goodyear Eagles (H-rated, hogh treadwear) and beat guys on R's Mr. Green

To me, if the club changes a rule or allowable bump etc, nothing wrong with that. Once an EGM is held and members vote, no problem. Something may not have worked for the last 10 years, but may make sense now....keeps things dynamic.....sometimes people complain about new rules, but were not present when a vote was taken....in which case, their loss....the club makes every effort to inform people about meetings in advance......if rules are to be changed or modified that will affect Amir's and others' classification, no doubt they will have a forum to voice their concerns / objections and put it to a vote Exclamation

In the meantime, nobody respond to my question about the HSR Wink

mazdamaniac · Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject:

Amir, if you really want to go SS for the personal challenge then thats great and you should go for it. I personally think you should stay (pending dyon and weighing results) as ESP and also the other classes are growing in numbers and the compitition is getting tighter. If dex was every weekend that would suit me just fine as I might be able to develop faster. I know that I can beat you cause it happened in Dex 4 2007 and I know that I can do it again. Ah doh know why ppl running scare. Even if I doh catch yuh first ah sure the others in ESP will. So if yuh could, hangin there and give we ah change to get even

wagonrunner · Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:44 am Post subject:

Rudman · Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:51 am Post subject:

^Agreed wagonrunner.

Maybe I should join ESP next year!..... Idea

pete · Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:27 pm Post subject:

Stock starlet should be ESP.

Where meh 1.5 swift gonna be? I'm thinking ES..

Ignorant Ignis · Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: