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noshownogo
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 Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:40 pm
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| its a sticky situation tho, because on the one hand the main issue for most teams is the financial cap proposed which would limit the teams to something like 40million euro on car development. On the other hand it has become an incentive for other teams to enter F1 which would be a welcome to fans but at the risk of undermining their favourite current F1 teams. |
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Maserati
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Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 1:33 pm
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this is how the 2010 rules are looking
| Quote: | Refueling banned
First of all, the council has confirmed that refueling will be banned as of 2010. There have been talks about this change for a while, mostly because it will have a considerable impact for the car's designs. At some circuits fuel consumption is currently as high as 3l per lap, requiring next year's cars to have fuel tanks of approximately 180l, maybe even more. To put this in perspective, most teams currently have tanks of about 90l. The change will remove the need to transport the 20 heavy refuelling rigs to each race venue, while on the sportive side we may again see drivers having to save fuel at some point during the race. It may even come to situations as in the late 80's where drivers just ran out of fuel towards the end of a race.
Increased weight limit
Due to the pressure of BMW Sauber who want to reduce the disadvantage heavier drivers have now, the minimum weight has been increased from 605kg to 620kg.
Safety measures for the front wing
In the margin of changes, the new rules also stipulate an extended area where bodywork components must have a minimum radius to prevent damage to an opponent's tyre in case of a collision:
3.4.2 In order to prevent tyre damage to other cars, the top, forward and outer edges of the lateral extremities of any bodywork more than 450mm ahead of the front wheel centre line and more than 750mm from the car centre line must be at least 10mm thick with a radius of at least 5mm.
More strict KERS regulations
As of 2010, the KERS may not be activated when a car is travelling at more than 300km/h. This change will effectively eliminate the possibility to use KERS for additional top speed but instead allow its use to more quickly attain than top speed. In addition to that, homologated sensors on the system will be required. The position of the KERS storage device - whether it is a flywheel or a battery pack - will have to be located ahead of the front of the engine and behind the driver. It is believed that all current KERS cars nearly comply to this regulation already.
5.2.5 All KERS energy storage devices must be situated between the front face of the engine and the driver's back when viewed in lateral projection. When establishing the front face of the engine, no parts of the fuel, oil, water or electrical systems will be considered. 5.2.6 Cars must be fitted with homologated sensors which provide all necessary signals to the SDR in order to verify the requirements above are being respected.
Budget capped regulation set
With the start of 2010, an additional regulation formula will be introduced that will put teams on a budget limit of £45 million. In exchange these will receive more technical freedom.
More power from the engine
One of these particularities is the removal of the 18000rpm limit. Whether this will prove interesting is something else, as the teams will be using the same standardized engines as all other competitors. Because these have been designed to last long enough to manage a full season with 8 engines, reliability may be severely compromised if teams choose to run them at higher speeds. Apart from this worry, increased speed will also come with increased fuel consumption. The teams willing to run their engines at higher rpm consistently will have to build larger fuel tanks and be slower at the beginning of the race due to their higher fuel ballast.
Movable aerodynamics
Budget controlled teams will be allowed to have their front wing adjusted by 10°, a surplus of 4° over the teams that choose to go with the conventional rule set. They will also be allowed to adjust the front wing's incidence any time they find it appropriate - and not limited to twice a lap. The rear wing will also be adjustable and can greatly help to boost a car on high speed sections of a circuit.
3.18.2 The incidence of the upper section described in Article 3.10.2 (if two sections are used) may be varied whilst the car is in motion, provided any such change maintains compliance with all of the bodywork dimensional regulations. Alteration of the incidence of this section may only be commanded by direct driver input and controlled using the control electronics specified in Article 8.2. This Article applies only to Cost-Regulated Teams.
Doubled KERS power
Perhaps the most interesting benefit for these teams will be the double power allowed from their KERS devices. The cars will be allowed to release twice the energy - in and out - with KERS. Hence, with the same KERS system, they can use the additional 60hp for up to 12s per lap. Or, alternatively, the system can be adapted to have 120hp available during 6s.
5.2.3 The maximum power, in or out, of any KERS must not exceed 60kW. Energy released from the KERS may not exceed 400kJ in any one lap. Measurements will be taken at the connection to the drivetrain. For Cost-Regulated Teams only the following will apply :
- the power in is unrestricted ;
- the power out is limited to 120kW ;
- the energy released per lap is limited to 800kJ ;
- measurements will be taken at any FIA approved point in the drivetrain.
Four wheel drive
On top of that, cost regulated teams will be allowed four wheel drive. For those teams, article 9.1 of the technical regulations that states "No transmission system may permit more than two wheels to be driven." has been scrapped from the rulebook. While there is an extensive range of possibilities to exploit this change, it is most likely that teams will add a motor-generator for their KERS systems to the front wheels, allowing to charge the KERS device with brake energy from the front wheels too, whereas this is currently not allowed. As a direct consequence, the front wheels are also allowed to be powered by KERS.
Complete testing freedom
Currently teams are not allowed any in-season testing. However, it will be up to the budget-limited teams when they test in 2010, as long as they don't exceed their limited yearly budget.
Full scale wind tunnel testing
The cost-reducing regulation that allows teams only to run 50% scale models in their wind tunnels will be removed for teams complying with the budget limitation. |
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dmitc
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dmitc
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Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 2:43 pm
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my question is why is it that FIA keep insisting on bringing down cost but they constantly change the rules each year forcing teams to spend countless millions on R&D not to mention design and reliability.
I'm glad Ferrari is leaving if there is no change in there ridiculous rules that way i would not be tempted to watch. |
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Knight1
Shifting into 6th
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Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 3:11 pm
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| Quote: | More strict KERS regulations
As of 2010, the KERS may not be activated when a car is travelling at more than 300km/h. This change will effectively eliminate the possibility to use KERS for additional top speed but instead allow its use to more quickly attain than top speed. |
Absolute BS. I mean, those cars accelerate to 200+ kph in the blink of an eye.......the advantage to use KERS would have been at higher speeds on a straight to pass someone who may have a little edge on you on the top end IMHO.
I thought the WANTED to encourage passing......
| Quote: | my question is why is it that FIA keep insisting on bringing down cost but they constantly change the rules each year forcing teams to spend countless millions on R&D not to mention design and reliability.
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X23456!!!! Is it a concerted effort to give the "more" affluent teams a harder time? If they really wanted more new teams to enter F1...they should have made some minimal changes, and put the cap on development after that.......whether you like it or not, the more experienced teams will always have an advantage...no matter how much the FIA tries to limit what they can do with the car for the new season......
| Quote: | Refueling banned
First of all, the council has confirmed that refueling will be banned as of 2010. There have been talks about this change for a while, mostly because it will have a considerable impact for the car's designs. |
This changes the dynamics of the race entirely.......the whole idea of pitstop strategy vs. car weight will be thrown out the window.......... |
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teems1
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Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 4:40 pm
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Max and Bernie are right to want to lower the cost of F1.
Too much money was being spent on F1 especially in this economic climate.
His way of doing it was wrong tho. He can't expect Ferrari/Toyota to go from 400m budget one year to approx 55m the next. Its just impossible.
He should have staggered the amount instead of setting it so low. |
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dmitc
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Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 4:42 pm
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| Knight1 wrote: | | Quote: | Refueling banned
First of all, the council has confirmed that refueling will be banned as of 2010. There have been talks about this change for a while, mostly because it will have a considerable impact for the car's designs. |
This changes the dynamics of the race entirely.......the whole idea of pitstop strategy vs. car weight will be thrown out the window.......... |
i still trying to figure out how exactly qualifying would be, is it that they going to allow teams to run whatever fuel level in qualifying and then they fill up for the race or is it that you have to run race fuel during qualifying? |
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Maserati
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 10:57 am
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8048112.stm
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Renault join F1 pull-out threat
Renault are the latest high-profile team threatening to quit Formula 1 unless proposals to adopt a £40m budget cap in 2010 are shelved.
On Tuesday, Ferrari joined Toyota and Red Bull in declaring their intention to pull out of F1 because of the plans.
And Renault boss Flavio Briatore has adopted a similar stance.
"If the decisions announced by the FIA are not revised, we have no choice but to withdraw from the world championship at the end of 2009," he said. |
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noshownogo
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 12:38 pm
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well it looks as though either the FIA amend their rule changes for 2010 or face shutting down F1 for the season.
A meeting is scheduled to happen Friday morning to resolve these issues between the teams and the FIA.
This after the FIA president called their bluff stating "Ferrari are not stupid," "They don't want to leave Formula 1 and we don't want to lose them, so we'll get to grips with it." |
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dmitc
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 12:50 pm
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| noshownogo wrote: | well it looks as though either the FIA amend their rule changes for 2010 or face shutting down F1 for the season.
A meeting is scheduled to happen Friday morning to resolve these issues between the teams and the FIA.
This after the FIA president called their bluff stating "Ferrari are not stupid," "They don't want to leave Formula 1 and we don't want to lose them, so we'll get to grips with it." |
it's one thing if a team principal says it but when it comes from the board of directors of the parent company in a statement which includes their first quarter result trust me it's no bluff |
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pato
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Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 7:23 am
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Ok i'm fairly new to F1 racing, this is actually my second season where i actually watched the races. My question is if Ferrari, and Toyota are having problems and they were around a long time, then how come the Brawn team is doing so well, both in qualifing and race days ? What are they doing different that has given them the edge so far ?
I know Ross Brawn was at Ferrari during the Michael Schumacher era but that can't be all. Button has one 4 races thus far and his team mate close behind, the last few races guys like alonso ,kimi, glock are having a tough time. |
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dmitc
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Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:53 am
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| pato, i think the that reason Ferrari and say McLaren has fallen so far back was because the focus on improving their 2008 cars to fight for last year's title while teams like Honda {presently Brawn GP}, Redbull and Toyota focused on developing their 09 cars. Plus there is the issue of rule interpretation wrt to the defusers that has put the top runners where they are well except for Redbull that did not have the twin defusers but are just reall quick |
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teems1
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Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:22 am
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| pato wrote: | Ok i'm fairly new to F1 racing, this is actually my second season where i actually watched the races. My question is if Ferrari, and Toyota are having problems and they were around a long time, then how come the Brawn team is doing so well, both in qualifing and race days ? What are they doing different that has given them the edge so far ?
I know Ross Brawn was at Ferrari during the Michael Schumacher era but that can't be all. Button has one 4 races thus far and his team mate close behind, the last few races guys like alonso ,kimi, glock are having a tough time. |
BrawnGP is the Honda team bought over.
While most teams spend a ludicrous amount of money developing their current car to earn points/podiums, Honda last year did not.
Honda literally said screw it, ignore the 2008 car totally, we'll spend 100% of our time, money and r&d on the 2009 car.
So while Ferrari, McLaren and BMW were fighting for the WDC last year, Button and Barichello were fighting with Force India to avoid last place.
Then the financial meltdown happened, companies (especially car manufacturers) were making record losses, it would have looked really bad for Honda to spend hundreds of millions on F1 while ppl were losing their jobs, thus they sold the team very cheap to Brawn.
Hence the Brawn car is currently the best, even though they're a small outfit, lots and lots of money was spent on it last year. |
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noshownogo
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noshownogo
3NE2NR is my LIFE
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Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:35 am
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Lola to join F1 in 2010
UK car company confirms decision to join the circuit for next season.
Lola has confirmed it will be applying for a place on the 2010 Formula One grid under the FIA's planned budget cap regulations. |
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Maserati
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Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:48 am
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lol
or he just not accustomed to being in this position  |
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teems1
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Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 5:00 pm
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| most ppl not accustomed to being paid 25m pounds a year either. |
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MG Man
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Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 8:49 pm
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| F1's biggest crybaby |
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teems1
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 4:38 pm
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McLaren need to rehire Adrian Newey.
A freakin Red Bull is fighting for podiums while McLaren are out of the points. sigh |
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MadCrix
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 11:12 am
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and i find it is about time rb steppd up
it was a logn time coming
last year eveyone knew i supported hammi, but a good driver with a bad car or a bad driver with a good car, either way, that team is not performing.
button and mark are drivign in a different class, be it car, driver or a bit off both |
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