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legacy_specB
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:02 pm
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RB25-DET wrote:
legacy_specB wrote:
RB25-DET....................change yuh signature nah............... Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green


alyuh hada excuse meh eh, i was born in a B11 please dont take offence to the signature i know i'm in a subaru forum..... Very Happy



No offense taken i just giving yuh some static.. Laughing Laughing Laughing
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b18b_turbo
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:08 pm
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legacy_specB wrote:
Ok so with that TMIC the surface area changes.....it is increased. So the result would be cooler charged air. Now what about flow characteristics?? Does the manufacturer say how much the pressure drop is with this TMIC?

The piping also greatly affects the pressure drop through the FMIC that also needs to be taken into consideration. If you notice with the piping setup of ole whore's FMIC, The piping from the turbo to the IC is smaller than the piping to the throttle body. Why do you think that is?? That would actually affect the amount of lag produced.

Depending on the piping you use, the FMIC would still flow greater amounts of colder air than the TMIC with slightly more lag.

I am not disputing the lag.

Consider this: TMIC flowing cold air but quickly reaches max flow capacity. FMIC flowing air of the same temperature, but does not reach max flow capacity as fast with a 1 psi drop in pressure. The top end flow would be much better. Which one you think works out better even with the pressure drop?


- pressure drop with TMIC = 0

- The pipe diameter is reduced to increase flow rate under a specific pressure in an effort to reduce lag. Did you know that increasing and decreasing the diameter of a pipe along a path of flow of a fluid at high velocity, creates turbulent flow? Laminar flow is what is desired, which is why constant diameter is preferred. Momentum is also affected as mass of air per unit volume suddenly changes. (I did this stuff in school Razz).

Where did you get the term "max flow capacity?" An intercooler is like a box-shaped pipe with little radiators all over the insides....there is nothing like a max flow capacity David...unless you running like 35psi or something Neutral
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legacy_specB
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:15 pm
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Ok how about max effecient flow capacity? That better?

And don't call meh fackin name on the forum nah boi. Laughing Laughing
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b18b_turbo
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:22 pm
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legacy_specB wrote:
Ok how about max effecient flow capacity? That better?

And don't call meh fackin name on the forum nah boi. Laughing Laughing


which is why i said:

"unless you running 35 psi or something"
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legacy_specB
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:37 pm
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Max efficient flow would come into play waaaay before then. At 22 psi I would not even think about running a TMIC. At that boost level a FMIC would handle it much better. And b18 there is a pressure drop still. And it's about half a psi. Do your research on reviews of ppl who have actually used this TMIC.

If you want to tell me that at 14.5-18 psi on the stock turbo, the TMIC is better, then I would quicker agree with that.


Last edited by legacy_specB on Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Flex030
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:42 pm
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I'm sure Redman would be proud he asked that question, i am... Wink
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b18b_turbo
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:43 pm
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Legacy_SpecB, we talkin about redman car....not ken block!

PS: do you have PSI vs RPM vs Radiation curves to support ur claim?...you sound like u do...



Last edited by b18b_turbo on Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bacon
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:45 pm
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The saga continues Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green

I decided to leave the entire statements with only the names edited...........

** wrote:
I saw one of those Perrin TMIC on a legacy wagon a few days ago. Very soild piece of hardware. The turbo bolted directly onto it, does yours do the same? I don't understand what people said "couldn't be done"? Looks good so far.

Is that Perrin Recirc valve a proper recirculation valve or a BOV?


* wrote:
**, it is a direct bolt up, full re-circulation valve..... brought it in myself
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legacy_specB
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:46 pm
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But since is redman car we talking bout here and he may never cross 20psi then maybe the TMIC would be sufficient.
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b18b_turbo
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:50 pm
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legacy_specB wrote:
But since is redman car we talking bout here and he may never cross 20psi then maybe the TMIC would be sufficient.


ppl underestimate the TMIC.

For example:

Look at TMIC power:

TIMC + big turbo.......lag talked about



check how stock the engine bay looks guys



FMIC + big turbo......lag talked about:



Last edited by b18b_turbo on Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:01 pm; edited 2 times in total
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legacy_specB
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:51 pm
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But I just say that since is redman car we talking bout it would work!!!!!! B18b read boy read!!! Laughing Laughing
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Flex030
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:52 pm
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TMIC OR FMIC both has it’s advantages and disadvantages just doh forget the water/meth very useful addition to the mix.
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Bacon
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:52 pm
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Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green



But somehow.......all kicks aside....the rate that RM fella start out hot and sweaty I would not be surprised if he does..........


Last edited by Bacon on Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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b18b_turbo
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:52 pm
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legacy_specB wrote:
But I just say that since is redman car we talking bout it would work!!!!!! B18b read boy read!!! Laughing Laughing


which is why i say u underestimate the power of a TMIC, which is why i posted the vid that i did.

This goes to show about our rising heat theory and also BIG turbo on TMIC lag, they mentioned it in teh vid. However in the following vid, BIg turbo + FMIC had RIDUCULOUS LAG:


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legacy_specB
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:02 pm
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That's right Flex. WMI is important. And much more so when running a TMIC. Also b18b did you notice the thing in the trunk of the car???? I wonder if that car would be doing so much hp if that wasn't there?
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legacy_specB
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:05 pm
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Where redman? Redo I have ah question for you. What exactly you plan on doing with yuh car? In terms of boost levels etc? It makes no sense arguing which is better for you if we don't know how you plan to use it.
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b18b_turbo
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:13 pm
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legacy_specB wrote:
It makes no sense arguing


man speak for himself Very Happy
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legacy_specB
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:03 pm
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B18 btw the lag in that video have nothing to do with the FMIC. Like the guy said it is because of the massive turbo used and the gear that he was in. You would get that same lag with a TMIC.
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b18b_turbo
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:21 pm
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lag depends on what gear you are in sir....

both cars huge single scroll turbos, similar output, one with tmic, one with fmic.

they were also both in 4th gear eh....
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Redman
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:28 am
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Um I think I will just stay stock

Thanks




























Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


Ok
Thanks for all the info-and I appreciate flex's pride Im a man that just found the jack handle. I fully agree with his point of the comfort of ride and keepin that as the priority (if it is in fact the priority)

My issue would be what s the cost of a top mount installed vs the FMIC installed, and then look at the inc in performance per $ spent.(cant help it its my nature) The cost benefit is the first step.
Im not looking to be the fastest-I this is the last mod I would be making for a while and to be frank the ease of the TMIC switch is attractive.

With the top mount I understand that the Perrins require a little mods while you can order the AVO as a JDM spec and is a seamless mount up with a possible issue with the seal under the bonnet.

WHats the gain in HP with the 2 and approx cost?

Would I need to change the size of the turbo to get the benefits out of a FMIC??


Later
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legacy_specB
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:50 am
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Well that depends a little on whether you are a brand name junkie like b18b.... Mr. Green Mr. Green

The last price i saw for those TMIC's was around $800+ US.

Or you can go the cheaper route and buy a FMIC and a universal piping kit and make up your bends.

TMIC = around 6k if the price is around $800 US.
FMIC = $3500, 4k tops with universal kit.

Anybody doh agree with those prices? I think it would be about that. But still is a guesstimate. Smile Smile
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Flex030
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:57 am
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Redman I'm sure you were not expecting a 3 page read up... Mr. Green
Daiz how we (LGT) do it.... Twisted Evil

I would take a W/M kit over a TMIC or FMIC any day if i had to make a choice (more performance) the only problem is getting meth to full the bottle. I agree with you the new TMIC would look good plus the stock one looks like a sweated on plastic welded thing. You would get some gains never the less but get a w/m kit if you want real performance.
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Redman
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:20 am
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What kind of gains can we expect from tmic vs fmic -not to be difficult but that important too-is the work on the front mount worth it?

Somebody mentioned that there is an issue re the bumper and a FMIC- what is the problem?

Flex -I going for 4 - I sure I could ask enough for 5 though Embarassed

Later
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Flex030
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:00 am
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Redman wrote:

Somebody mentioned that there is an issue re the bumper and a FMIC- what is the problem?


I borrowed these pics from Csugden (scoobytnt) I hope it's not a problem

Click for full-size.

Click for full-size.

Click for full-size.

Click for full-size.
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Redman
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:48 am
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
De pic dem nice and ting but ahm whats the issue??

Later
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Civic 2nr
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:11 pm
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i got a quote for a custom fmic locally and it was around 7-8 k.
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legacy_specB
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:25 pm
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The issue there is fitment of the FMIC with the bumper support bar there. It looks like it has been cut to allow space for the IC.

And i agree with Flex. Go W/M kit. The nice thing about it is that you can also run water only if you dont have access to meth.

It would actually be cheaper to go W/M as you can get a kit for around $3k or so and achieve more gains that an upgraded TMIC or FMIC with less hassle.
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Redman
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:58 pm
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So spec b you saying that the Water/Meth kit with a stock TMIC is a do able mod-but including a bigger IC-FM or TM is a step up from a W/M kit???




5 pages or bust


Later
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legacy_specB
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:16 pm
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Actually no not really. What i am saying is that using W/M with the stock intercooler would give greater gains than using an upgraded TMIC or FMIC without W/M. Of course, an upgraded TMIC or FMIC with W/M would be even better but thats where cost comes into play.

If you are looking at $ vs performance, then W/M is the way to go. The gains you would achieve is greater than any TMIC or FMIC setup that isnt using W/M. And it would be cheaper.

Look at the cost of running a custom FMIC that Civic2nr posted. $7-$8 gran Shocked Shocked thats alot of money yow!!!!!!

The only thing is to pick which W/M kit is right for you. It definitely aint going to cost you anything close to $7 k........................
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Redman
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:34 pm
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Well aight,
I think we saying the same thing just you know what you talking about.
So.........if that s the case whats your recc on the W/M?????

Later
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