LEGACY GROUP TRINIDAD; DAILY NEWS AND OLE TALK ;-)

Civic 2nr · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:28 pm Post subject:

bacon that pic of the engine bay is from a personal friend of mines. that intercooler was modified locally for it to fit , it is where i got my info from, i saw taht intercooler before , during and after the mod as i was there Wink

Civic 2nr · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:29 pm Post subject:

b18 i understand what you are saying but i wanted to go fmic and did all the research , for no turbo lag with the vf378 the oulet from the tubo dia has to be 1 .5 inches and the inlet to the tb has to be matched with 2.5 inches as that is the size of the tb. and still there would be considerable lag.

b18b_turbo · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:39 pm Post subject:

Civic 2nr · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:38 pm Post subject:

sorry vf38 Embarassed

typo......

Flex030 · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:25 pm Post subject:

Ok guys when u say lag thats a relative term but b18b i get your point and a valid one that is.
With the extra piping you would get some lag but by how much 200rpm vs a much cooler charge temp.... Neutral

Com'on guys the vf38 is a small turbo that spools very fast so when we say lag I'm thinking about a significant amount of lag (500rpm+). At the end of day you cah drive a turbo without lag better you buy a N/A...... Laughing

The best man to talk to about this is ole whore he has on a FMIC.

RB25-DET · Street 2NR Joined: 03 Apr 2009 Tech posts: 50 My 2NRide:

legacy_specB · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:12 pm Post subject:

I would go with the FMIC. With the right size of the piping and a proper tune the most lag you would experience is like Flex said about 200rpm at most. However once you get into boost the difference would be plain to see. After all an IC is only efficient when the car is moving and air is moving through the fins.

The FMIC would allow a less restricted flow of colder air than the TMIC would ever allow. Even if you use the zerosports scoop insert, the surface area of the TMIC does not change. But with the FMIC, the cooler ambient air cools a much greater area resulting in a cooler overall charge of air.

Cooler air means more more timing which means more power. And WMI kit is the way to go.

If anybody want meth let me know................. Twisted Evil

Civic 2nr · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:33 pm Post subject:

i understand the points but apart from that the stock legacy bumper restricts at least 60% of the airflow due to bumper design. i personally would love to have a fmic and i am still looking for one but the price perrin and those other manu charging is outrageous. for that money i can change the turbo intercooler and intake manifold and have money to drop in ah gallon ah c16.

b18b_turbo · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:33 pm Post subject:

legacy_specB,

What you all do not get is that the size of ur FMIC is a HUGE factor. The big ones that you are obviously talking about gives more lag. Legacy_SpecB, you are wrong about the surface area not changing. The Perrin TMIC utilizes an area close to stock by carefully engineering alignment and angle of the fins, producing over 200% OEM Effective cooling surface area through an intercooler containing a very similar 'volume' to OEM. When i say volume, i mean volume per unit time passing throught the intercooler.This 'volume' accounts for air passing through faster than a big FMIC but still radiating the heat over a well increased surface area. In this case surface area is NOT measured as follows:

Area = Length x Breath ......

The area refferred to is area within the Intercooler that the intake air is in contact with and area of radiation with respect to the fins.

Another thing to note is that across these large FMICS, you actually lose boost. Some of the generic brands, you could lose up to 4psi from 20psi!! THe more high end ones, you would lose 1 psi or so....

As RB25-det rightly said, in Redman's case (A/T), boost does not get you off the line, torque does.

Just to note (I know redman is not building a 1/4 mile car) but getting off the line is probably the biggest part of a 1/4 mile race! So IMHO, to maximize the performance in THIS INSTANCE, the best bet would be aftermarket TMIC with an optional Water/Meth kit. He cant rev into boost to compensate for that lost boost and lag now can he? Even if you get of the line with that FMIC 200rpm later, that little b18c-R civic, still goin to wash you up Razz

or maybe even a b18b turbo Razz

Civic 2nr · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:36 pm Post subject:

btw b18 i ran a b18c car some time ago and literally handed his asss to him...... even i was supprised Shocked

b18b_turbo · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:38 pm Post subject:

Civic_2nr so you're the one sitting right?

Razz

Civic 2nr · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:43 pm Post subject:

now b18 that is disturbing... Neutral

b18b_turbo · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:50 pm Post subject:

hahahah

RB25-DET · Street 2NR Joined: 03 Apr 2009 Tech posts: 50 My 2NRide:

fellas enough with the civic talk and ass raping Laughing

, comin back to the intercooler talk, its not a matter of generic vs high end, here in trini the "BIGGER IS ALWAYS BETTER" attitude comes into play, i personally saw an example of the trini attitude come into play when a guy increased the ic size and went from 15psi to 5psi, a properly calculated and matched intercooler size will not give you any pressure losses across the it, with a proper tune its a very good move... Smile

BTW Redman, are you running the stock ecu or open source Question

b18b_turbo · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:53 pm Post subject:

"calculated" = Perrin / AVO

Redman is tuned

legacy_specB · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:53 pm Post subject:

Ok so with that TMIC the surface area changes.....it is increased. So the result would be cooler charged air. Now what about flow characteristics?? Does the manufacturer say how much the pressure drop is with this TMIC?

The piping also greatly affects the pressure drop through the FMIC that also needs to be taken into consideration. If you notice with the piping setup of ole whore's FMIC, The piping from the turbo to the IC is smaller than the piping to the throttle body. Why do you think that is?? That would actually affect the amount of lag produced.

Depending on the piping you use, the FMIC would still flow greater amounts of colder air than the TMIC with slightly more lag.

I am not disputing the lag.

Consider this: TMIC flowing cold air but quickly reaches max flow capacity. FMIC flowing air of the same temperature, but does not reach max flow capacity as fast with a 1 psi drop in pressure. The top end flow would be much better. Which one you think works out better even with the pressure drop?

And i not saying to go with a FMIC the size of the USA im just saying that if you use the right size FMIC it would still be better than the TMIC IMO.

legacy_specB · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:55 pm Post subject:

RB25-DET....................change yuh signature nah............... Mr. Green

RB25-DET · Street 2NR Joined: 03 Apr 2009 Tech posts: 50 My 2NRide:

Word B18b

,
Well said SpecB Mr. Green

RB25-DET · Street 2NR Joined: 03 Apr 2009 Tech posts: 50 My 2NRide: