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importzxtt
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sigma-turbo
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 Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:21 pm
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that guy is a dumb ass
whats wrong with methylated spirits and a scotchbrite pad OR weld prep cleaner ? |
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Sanctifier
30 pounds of Boost
Joined: 09 Jun 2004
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Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:51 am
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Few of us can afford any kind of welding safety equipment but some simple tips can help.
Link--> ~ MIG WELDING - The DIY Guide.
| Sanctifier wrote: |  ALWAYS weld in a well-ventilated area!
Blow metal fumes away from your face, with a pedestal fan pointed at your back (at low speed.)
Buy two 3Ms Welding Respirators (keep a spare, there's a 'useful' life) and always use it.
Link--> 3Ms Class 95 Particulate Respirators (Store in clean Ziploc bags.) |
The 1st link has a COMPLETE MIG Welding Course and even more safety details...
but pay attention to THIS ONE... Link--> Welding Galvanized Steel -- Safely.
NEVER WELD GALVANIZED STEEL WITHOUT PRE-PREPERATION... AND PROTECTION!
Link--> Jim's death by metal (zinc) fume fever.
You should not even use a wire-wheel on galvanized steel. There is a "solution" to the problem (pun intended)  ... | MP wrote: | Heating Galvanized Metal:... 01/14/02.
To be safe soak the part in a muriatic acid solution overnight (to remove the zinc)...
 (Slowly add acid to water... Never add water to acid. Use in well-ventilated area.)
then rinse with water.
Neutralize the acid with baking soda solution...
then treat it as (~ handle it like) any other part. |
Being uninformed can be dangerous sometimes... Being informed and careless can kill you.
If your know the risks and protect yourself from them, you can have a lot of FUN... SAFELY!
Everybody's $0.02¢ |
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brams112
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Joined: 15 Jul 2008
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Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:01 pm
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| ever see the stuff that remains when you weld galvanise pipes,that stuff can kill,it is a whiteish substance that remains,plus the fumes is also white,,,, |
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buzz
Chronic TriniTuner
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Tech posts: 581
Location: FL studio 9 mofos !!1!
My 2NRide: TVR Cerbera
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Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:09 pm
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| interesting |
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Sanctifier
30 pounds of Boost
Joined: 09 Jun 2004
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Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:30 am
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| brams112 wrote: | | ever see the stuff that remains when you weld galvanise pipes,that stuff can kill,it is a whiteish substance that remains,plus the fumes is also white,,,, |
What you see is mainly ZINC OXIDE. That's one of the things that causes Metal Fume Fever.
Welding = Heat = Burning (oxidation) = Molten metal + Metal fumes = TROUBLE! See links in my 1st post... | Sanctifier wrote: | Think about all those "welders" working for scaffolding manufacturers and "muffler" shops, who DON'T have any protection...and don't even know about the danger! IMHO that's the kind of thing OSHA should be investigating.
When the illness is caused by heavy metal poisoning there is no cure. |
A fan blowing the fumes away from your face is a MINIMUM precaution. In a perfect world, you should use
a Supply-air Welding Respirator...  ...This Speedaire is $1500+ US.  You also need
a Fume Extractor... ...but at $600-$4000+ US I can't afford that either.
At $10-$12 US, a 3Ms Welding Respirator... is a cheaper alternative. | Sanctifier wrote: | Simliar HEALTH RISKS occur with anything that causes dust & fumes...
Wood-working, grinding & sanding, soldering, drilling etc. etc.
I used to smoke for 26 years... I quit for the last 14 years...I don't want to push my luck any further.
I'll use a fan...and BUILD a downdraft welding table (w/exhaust fan.)... I bought a cheaper (eBay $400 US)
Supply-air Welding Respirator Click--> 
I also got 3 other helmets, so I can use this also for sandblasting, bodywork & painting etc.
As soon as I can afford it, I'll add a Cyclone Dust Extractor... ...because sawdust is almost as dangerous! Until then... NO carpentry! |
At least use a fan and buy a cheap 3Ms Respirator. It's YOUR lungs 
My $0.02¢ |
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legendkiller@1891
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Joined: 25 Jan 2008
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Location: circumnavigating trini looking for females
My 2NRide: Mitsubishi Lancer GSR
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Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:03 pm
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| well i sure did learn something here today... |
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sigma-turbo
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Joined: 06 May 2009
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Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:12 pm
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| legendkiller@1891 wrote: | | well i sure did learn something here today... |
yep that staying alive is expensive
and its cheaper to get someone else to weld them self to death |
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Sanctifier
30 pounds of Boost
Joined: 09 Jun 2004
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Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:40 am
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^ ^ ^ Then all of us will always have to face "rip-off" prices for sh!t-work...from a long line of con-men!
| Sanctifier wrote: | The cost of a reasonable quality, full roll-cage locally made, used to be $14,000-$16,000...THREE years ago.
Imported "bolt-in" cages are also VERY expensive too. AFAIK it has now been made compulsory for circuit racing too. Most 2nrs can't afford either option.
And roll-cages & body-work are not the only areas where dangerous dust and fumes are found...(soldering...brazing...etc.) Then 2nrs will have to pay for almost all of the work... I can't afford that |
Most of the BEST project cars are built by DIY 2nrs. VERY few 2nrs can afford to buy a "ready-made" car; custom built to their specs. That will lead to the eventual death of the hobby/sport.
| Sanctifier wrote: | ...At $10-$12 US, a 3Ms Welding Respirator... is a cheaper alternative.
...At least use a fan and buy a cheap 3Ms Respirator...
...If your know the risks and protect yourself from them, you can have a lot of FUN... SAFELY! |
Instead of depriving yourself of the satisfaction of ALL DIY projects...or not being able to drive a decent modified car; this is an affordable, safe alternative.
My $0.02¢
Last edited by Sanctifier on Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:00 am; edited 6 times in total |
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legendkiller@1891
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Joined: 25 Jan 2008
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Location: circumnavigating trini looking for females
My 2NRide: Mitsubishi Lancer GSR
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Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:51 am
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[quote="Sanctifier"]^ ^ ^ Then all of us will always have to face "rip-off" prices for sh!t-work...
X12
cheap things not good an good things not cheap... fabrication is some what expensive depending on what's the project... its tru most 2nrs dont have the $$ to accommodate for such a job....that's where DIY come in... |
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biggreen
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Joined: 31 May 2009
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Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:14 am
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Sanctifier, people are strange, you can inform them on what can happen if they do things give them all the info, but until it happens to to one of them then they would think before they act they think it never happened before so why should i change now?, our culture in T&T is a very strange one..  they rather save $50 now and spend $50,000 later |
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Sanctifier
30 pounds of Boost
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Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:20 am
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^ ^ ^ It would be interesting to see the results of lung & blood tests, on the foreman (Rick?) on "Unique Whips."
He is often cutting plywood... spraying...using fibre-glass resins & sanding body-filler WITHOUT adequate protection. Sometimes with NO protection at all on quick, "small jobs."
He does that for a living (while Mr. Owner sits in the office, bitchin' at everybody!)... I wish Rick(?) luck!
I'll use my "hobby" respirators and "home-made" protection... at least, until I can afford better.
My $0.02¢ |
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legendkiller@1891
Sweet on this forum
Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Tech posts: 300
Location: circumnavigating trini looking for females
My 2NRide: Mitsubishi Lancer GSR
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Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:48 pm
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| ^^ thumbs up...altho i sumtimes paint or prime small things without a respirator also.... i guess i tend to get lazy to put it on, daz a bad habit that i gotta stop... |
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sigma-turbo
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Joined: 06 May 2009
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Location: Australia
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Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:52 pm
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| Sanctifier wrote: | ^ ^ ^ Then all of us will always have to face "rip-off" prices for sh!t-work...from a long line of con-men!
| Sanctifier wrote: | The cost of a reasonable quality, full roll-cage locally made, used to be $14,000-$16,000...THREE years ago.
Imported "bolt-in" cages are also VERY expensive too. AFAIK it has now been made compulsory for circuit racing too. Most 2nrs can't afford either option.
And roll-cages & body-work are not the only areas where dangerous dust and fumes are found...(soldering...brazing...etc.) Then 2nrs will have to pay for almost all of the work... I can't afford that |
Most of the BEST project cars are built by DIY 2nrs. VERY few 2nrs can afford to buy a "ready-made" car; custom built to their specs. That will lead to the eventual death of the hobby/sport.
| Sanctifier wrote: | ...At $10-$12 US, a 3Ms Welding Respirator... is a cheaper alternative.
...At least use a fan and buy a cheap 3Ms Respirator...
...If your know the risks and protect yourself from them, you can have a lot of FUN... SAFELY! |
Instead of depriving yourself of the satisfaction of ALL DIY projects...or not being able to drive a decent modified car; this is an affordable, safe alternative.
My $0.02¢ |
true true, thats why we do our own work
but there is good honest fabricators out there that can save amateur builders some $$$, because by the time they buy the tools learn how to use it and stuff the job 5 times trying to figure out how its done, its often cheaper to get a pro to do it |
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Sanctifier
30 pounds of Boost
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:13 am
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| sigma-turbo wrote: | | ...but there is good honest fabricators out there that can save amateur builders some $$$, because by the time they buy the tools learn how to use it and stuff the job 5 times trying to figure out how its done, its often cheaper to get a pro to do it |
good honest fabricators... They are "so few and far between" that they are swamped with jobs. Now customers have a LONG wait and prices RISE every few months... leaving 2nrs with smaller & smaller budgets for their projects...
That's = Scarce $$$ = "Short-cuts" doing without important modifications = "Half-finished" projects.
My way...
| Quote: | Save $$$$ (yup, it takes a long time...so use the time to research & practice on borrowed/rented tools) = Buy equipment = Screw-up smaller jobs = EXPERIENCE!
Then (with time & experience) = Do bigger jobs SUCESSFULLY...ALL the time!
Now you have the SKILL + the DIY satsfaction + YOU OWN THE TOOLS & VITAL SAFETY EQUIPMENT FOREVER
That's a "WIN...WIN" situation, at least for me. |
My $0.02¢ |
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sigma-turbo
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:16 am
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| Sanctifier wrote: | | sigma-turbo wrote: | | ...but there is good honest fabricators out there that can save amateur builders some $$$, because by the time they buy the tools learn how to use it and stuff the job 5 times trying to figure out how its done, its often cheaper to get a pro to do it |
good honest fabricators... They are "so few and far between" that they are swamped with jobs. Now customers have a LONG wait and prices RISE every few months... leaving 2nrs with smaller & smaller budgets for their projects...
That's = Scarce $$$ = "Short-cuts" doing without important modifications = "Half-finished" projects.
My way...
| Quote: | Save $$$$ (yup, it takes a long time...so use the time to research & practice on borrowed/rented tools) = Buy equipment = Screw-up smaller jobs = EXPERIENCE!
Then (with time & experience) = Do bigger jobs SUCESSFULLY...ALL the time!
Now you have the SKILL + the DIY satsfaction + YOU OWN THE TOOLS & VITAL SAFETY EQUIPMENT FOREVER
That's a "WIN...WIN" situation, at least for me. |
My $0.02¢ |
time=$$$ and not everyone has 30+ years to learn how to build a car or the time do fairly basic mods for that matter
and if you stuff the job you pay again if a pro stuffs it they pay
diy is good if you have already got good fab painting and mechanical skills or if your in the trade |
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Sanctifier
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:08 am
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| sigma-turbo wrote: | time=$$$ and not everyone has 30+ years to learn how to build a car or the time do fairly basic mods for that matter
and if you stuff the job you pay again if a pro stuffs it they pay
diy is good if you have already got good fab painting and mechanical skills or if your in the trade |
30+ years to learn how to build a car... Did it take you that long to learn how to build your car?
Then it's hardly likely that most 2nrs need so much time either.
if a pro stuffs it they pay... With most con-men, you must TAKE THEM TO COURT! ADD "legal fees" to a shrinking budget. That can take 4 to 5 years (or more) to get damages and there is NO GUARANTEE either!... Howzat for wasting time & $$$. Quicker to DIY in these cases. Right now a number of local 2nrs are trying to get their PARTS...MONEY...& CARS back from a crooked "mechanic."
if you stuff the job you pay again... We're not talkng about "boring & honing a cylinder block" here, are we! That's what you pay for... but body & paint work is a good example for saving a lot of money.
| Sanctifier wrote: | | I have three project cars... I can't afford to pay $30,000-to-$45,000 to paint them. |
When "body & paint" jobs can run between $8,000-$15,000 each... or even MORE it makes sense to do at least MOST of the preliminary work yourself. You can negotiate with the shop for a discount to "remove & replace" the interior and external parts required for the job... OR...
After "straightening & filler-work" (only if necessary) is done by the shop; most of the body-prep (sanding and primer) and maybe even painting can be done after some practice... If you "screw-up" the filler or primer... just do it over again. No biggie!... It's not rocket science. Even buying DIY equipment is not that expensive.
It costs less (ebay) than a cheap paint-job, even after buying a good respirator...
BTW many new "water-based" paint systems are VERY user-friendly...and allow for "newbie" mistakes.
$8,000-$15,000 (or more) can help to buy a SUSPENSION upgrade, upgraded BRAKES or better RIMS.
My $0.02¢
Last edited by Sanctifier on Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:21 am; edited 5 times in total |
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sigma-turbo
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Joined: 06 May 2009
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Location: Australia
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:10 am
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| Sanctifier wrote: |
30+ years to learn how to build a car... Did it take you that long to build your car?
Then it's hardly likely that most 2nrs need so much time either. |
no it has taken me 4 years to build my current car but it has taken me 20 to learn what i know and have been lucky to have accelerated learning from being in the trade but theres still heaps i wouldnt do, luckily all the bloke in our group have their own expertise, it makes things fast and easy
| Quote: | if a pro stuffs it they pay... With most con-men, you will have to TAKE THEM TO COURT!...So ADD "legal fees" to a shrinking budget. That can take 4 to 5 years (or more) to get damages... and there is NO GUARANTEE either!
Howzat for waisting time... Quicker to DIY in these cases. Right now a big handful of 2nrs are trying to get their parts...MONEY...and CARS back from a crooked "mechanic". |
I dont know where in the world you live but we dont have problems with such people in Australia, things are so strict for vehicle repairers/builders here with the NRMA and the motor vehicle repairers council etc that its near impossible to for a repairer to carry out dodgy work
| Quote: | | if you stuff the job you pay again... We're not talkng about "boring & honing a cylinder block" here, are we! That's what you pay for... but body & paint work is a good example for saving a lot of money. |
Boring/honing is very simple and straight forward and is pretty hard to stuff up seeing as the machine duz all the work apart from lifting the block
some of the older machines require some thinking but these days its just a matter of punching the bore spacing and size into the computer and pressing start
paint work is a "get it right the first time thing" as its a very time consuming process and newbies can be caught out later down the track
paint can be stuffed right from the bare metal stage if people dont know what they're doing it may look good as the primer/paint is going on but once the clear is on cut back and polished you will see every flaw and mistake that has been made all the way down to the steel
then theres incorrect metal prep/sealing that could result the car rusting in the future or the paint crazing or falling off then theres a thing called "sink back" now this will sneak up on you and the only way to fix it is to start all over again
but how do you know you have stuffed it up before you began, if your an amateur you wont know until its too late but a pro will know what to do to avoid any problems
now some paints can cost $1500aud per liter most good paint around $100-$300aud per liter and depending on the system used it could cost about $3000aud in product alone for a basic 2k paint job then theres all the consumables tape, sand paper, stripper, quick discs etc
and then there time could be days could be months depending on the job or the size of the stuff up
you'd be surprised how little profit there is in body work and painting
I love to paint its one of the things that get my juices flowing
| Sanctifier wrote: | | I have three project cars... I can't afford to pay $30,000-to-$45,000 to paint them. |
| Quote: | When "body & paint" jobs can run between $8,000-$15,000 each... or even MORE it makes sense to do at least MOST of the preliminary work yourself.
You can negotiate with the shop for a discount to "remove & replace" the interior and external parts required for the job.
After "straightening & filler-work" (only if necessary) is done by the shop; most of the body-prep (sanding and primer) and maybe even painting can be done after some practice... If you "screw-up" the filler or primer... just do it over again... No biggie! |
i have to agree its a good idea to strip the car as much as you can as it cant be stuffed up that easily and if it is it can be repaired before the expensive stuff (paint) goes on same with assembly, if care is taken
| Quote: | | $5,000 (or even more) can help with buying a decent SUSPENSION upgrade... or upgraded BRAKE kit... or better RIMS. |
yep thats right, it will also come in handy to carry out future repairs
Its ok for you to say diy but you have been tinkering for a few years too and have also been if the trade, and this is where diy is a good for people like us, but for complete noobs its not a good idea unless they have resources and time at hand, thing can be costly and dangerous |
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