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DO K&N AIR FILTERS really give u more HP
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selectar69
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:54 pm
   Post subject: DO K&N AIR FILTERS really give u more HP
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Yeah ppl, studyin to use a drop in air filter in the civic, they are really expensive, do they really improve horsepower and by how much?
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praise
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:58 am
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Drop in air filter would not give you more HP. That's because your entire intake system remains the same. However, you would never need to buy another air filter again and your airflow would be less restricted as with normal paper filter, which becomes restricted as it start to collect dirt. K&N would allow air to flow as long as 50000 miles before it needs cleaning, which in turn reduce your fuel cost. If you want HP gains you need to install a cold air intake or short ram intake. Remember HP gains is at the expense of fuel. With the cold air ot shot ram intake your HP can improve by 5-10 percent.
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selectar69
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:03 am
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alright cool, thanks for the advice!
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jjcp
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:50 am
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well said praise
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Goolie
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:41 pm
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good info here ppl Wink
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Bacon
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:52 pm
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praise wrote:
If you want HP gains you need to install a cold air intake or short ram intake. Remember HP gains is at the expense of fuel. With the cold air ot shot ram intake your HP can improve by 5-10 percent.


I was at the Dyno when a car did a run with the stock intake and then installed a k&n short ram intake and did another run right after........Gains were about 4-5 whp...I cah remember exactly......
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legendkiller@1891
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:00 pm
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Goolie wrote:
good info here ppl Wink

that's what they claim on a K&N add i saw, it gives you about 5,10 to 20 more hp depending on the filter and the car but i don't think it gives you so much maybe a 4hp more probably...
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wagonrunner
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:51 pm
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^^
keep in mind, when those claims were made by K&N, cars with < 100whp to begin with, were not the mainstay of their R&D.
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Bacon
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:00 pm
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As I saw with my own eyes on a local (Trinidad) dyno.........4 or 5 whp gain on a 83whp vehicle............


we talking whp not hp.............
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legendkiller@1891
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:00 pm
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^^yea but i never said i believed the add...that's just advertising, but by providing the wrong information they think people would buy their products**although some people do** but that's just what all advertisements show, information that sounds and looks good but 80% of the time most of it isn't true...
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Dave
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:18 pm
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k&n is a reputable company with alot at stake and i am sure if they make a claim then i am sure they can back it up

panel filters flow more air than an oe replacement and even though that effect may not be felt i am sure it can be measured even though it may be a minimal 1-2whp, its still whp

in the real world, a panel replacement is not sold mainly as a power adder but as a cost effective solution when buying a vehicle and keeping it for a number of yrs and looking for ways to enhance performance and being ever so mindful of monies spent on maintenance. i would go into the whole synthetic oil but most ppl change like dead dino blood so i won't even bother.

i had one for 4.5yrs on a new vehicle and trust me it paid off when considering $35us, approx $220 vs $ 45tt (generic) or$550tt (oe) for a filter approx every 10k -12k km
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legendkiller@1891
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:31 pm
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Dave wrote:


in the real world, a panel replacement is not sold mainly as a power adder but as a cost effective solution

yea that makes sense...but im just talking about the 5,10to 20 hp boost from just an air-filter...although cone filters are the best air filters in the market so that kinda makes me think twice....
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bushwakka
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:41 pm
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i did dynos on my car with an without de k&n...wit de k&n gave an increase of 3 hp and 4 lb/ft torque.....but, the runs were done on different days, so it may be due to some other factor like temp, humidity etc.......very hard to place this on a dyno run

also, i find i hav to clean my filter every 10,000k actually.....i drive in a dusty environment, but that thing gets filthy with bugs and what not..........i wud recommend it as a good upgrade to OEM, but don't expect a noticeable increase in power
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wagonrunner
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:44 pm
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legendkiller@1891 wrote:
yea that makes sense...but im just talking about the 5,10to 20 hp boost from just an air-filter...although cone filters are the best air filters in the market so that kinda makes me think twice..

lemme try this another way.
5whp of 83whp is not even 5% right.
now on a vehicle with base HP 200-400 whp, yes they exist. how much does a 5% translate to?
just for those who can't do the math.
5% of 200WHP = 10WHP
5% of 400WHP = 20WHP.
don't knock it because it doesnt apply to your vehicle.
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Dave
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:57 pm
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k&n tests their panel filters against what the manufacturer would sell their vehicle with and a new at that.

some oe new filters are pretty dense and they sacrifice power for cleaniess so i could see some other k&n panels yielding greater results than others

cone filters are the best dependant upon the application u use them for

a dumb question but do ppl know what most filters have the ribbed effect for?
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wagonrunner
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:05 pm
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Dave wrote:
a dumb question but do ppl know what most filters have the ribbed effect for?

not to be sucked apart from the engine? or multiple filter surfaces the air has to pass through 1st?
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legendkiller@1891
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:05 pm
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wagonrunner wrote:
legendkiller@1891 wrote:
yea that makes sense...but im just talking about the 5,10to 20 hp boost from just an air-filter...although cone filters are the best air filters in the market so that kinda makes me think twice..

lemme try this another way.
5whp of 83whp is not even 5% right.
now on a vehicle with base HP 200-400 whp, yes they exist. how much does a 5% translate to?
just for those who can't do the math.
5% of 200WHP = 10WHP
5% of 400WHP = 20WHP.
don't knock it because it doesnt apply to your vehicle.

i feel you...
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thegtiman
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:53 am
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Dave wrote:
k&n is a reputable company with alot at stake and i am sure if they make a claim then i am sure they can back it up



I agree but the claims would be down to the reference vehicle or vehicles.

Quote:

panel filters flow more air than an oe replacement and even though that effect may not be felt i am sure it can be measured even though it may be a minimal 1-2whp, its still


I disagraee with this. Not when both test items are new. In my spare time an air indution study was conducted on a dyno dynamics rolls, using a Golf MK3 16v. Here the OE airbox was tested against, a home modified airbox, open throttle body, pod filter from Pipercross, OE and modified airbox with K & N panel and with std and new VAG Man filter. The result was the modified airbox achieved the highest torque and power post 4500rpm. Back to back swapping of panel fitlers in this airbox made no difference. On a later date the airbox to throttlebody duct where replaced with aftermarket tubes with no change to torque. I tend to run the test condition for 2-3 times to stabilise results.
You can read about it here. http://www.clubgti.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=199237.
I did this test on a EG SIR years ago and found that the STD airbox when modified is superior to the pod filter kits interms of shielding the engines heat away from the aircharge.


Quote:

i had one for 4.5yrs on a new vehicle and trust me it paid off when considering $35us, approx $220 vs $ 45tt (generic) or$550tt (oe) for a filter approx every 10k -12k km


I agreee.
This is advantage of the after market panel filter it takes long for air flow to deteriorate and can be resused. Unfortunalty many vehicles with wire element MAF sensors are sensitive to the oil that has to be used in these filters. This oils cooks in the sensor element and can impair the MAF measurements. [/quote]
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Strugglerzinc
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:08 am
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wagonrunner wrote:
Dave wrote:
a dumb question but do ppl know what most filters have the ribbed effect for?

not to be sucked apart from the engine? or multiple filter surfaces the air has to pass through 1st?


increase surface area of the filter
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red_dragon
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:20 am
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thegtiman wrote:
I did this test on a EG SIR years ago and found that the STD airbox when modified is superior to the pod filter kits interms of shielding the engines heat away from the aircharge.


because most Stock intakes I saw pull air from outside the the engine bay

hence putting a Bling short ram filter doh make sense u will loose power

and it has even been tested you can loose power with certain CAI intakes.

K&n drop in filter will work

had one for 3 yrs in my civic then changed to a AEM CAI

problem with the CAI it gets dirty Fast
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