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skellyuno
Street 2NR
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Tech posts: 75
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 Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:57 am
Post subject: crossovers |
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what are the differences between these two units and which is better for gallery system
(Audiocontrol 6xs and memphis 16x03)
? |
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southside connections
12 pounds of Boost
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Tech posts: 2265
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Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:19 am
Post subject: |
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both are great pieces of equipment
the audiocontrol however has a 4 outputs-
front highpass
front bandpass
rear highpass
sub bandpass
whereas the memphis has-
front highpass
front bandpass or highpass(switch)
sub bandpass
also, the audio-control uses chips to assure perfect xover points, the memphis uses dials, but this has been shown not to really affect frequency control
price range tho-
memphis - $ 800 to $900(new brand)
6xs- $1200*used* to $1800 new brand |
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3stagevtec
punchin NOS
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Tech posts: 4809
Location: killing two stones with one bird...
My 2NRide: Suzuki Grand Vitara
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Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:31 am
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| memphis for the adjustments.. audiocontrol if you know what you want.. |
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skellyuno
Street 2NR
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Tech posts: 75
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Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:07 am
Post subject: |
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| aight ok thanks |
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skellyuno
Street 2NR
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Tech posts: 75
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Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:11 am
Post subject: |
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| ok so if i go audiocontrol,what frequency chips would cross proper frequencies for these speakers:- 10" RCF ,N850 rcfdrivers, bass? |
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3stagevtec
punchin NOS
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Tech posts: 4809
Location: killing two stones with one bird...
My 2NRide: Suzuki Grand Vitara
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Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:58 pm
Post subject: |
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| skellyuno wrote: | | ok so if i go audiocontrol,what frequency chips would cross proper frequencies for these speakers:- 10" RCF ,N850 rcfdrivers, bass? |
check the frequency response charts on the RCF website to get the ideal crossover frequencies..
e.g.
http://www.rcf.it/en_US/c/d...=22488&name=DLFE-2197.pdf
look at the response graph at the bottom of the page.. you try to pick the flattest part of the graph.. i would say between 100Hz to 2000Hz is ideal.. below 100Hz, the output gets really low.. and above 2000Hz cone breakup starts to occur..
when you look at the N850 graph, you will see it plays well from 700Hz up..
http://www.rcf.it/en_US/c/d...=22488&name=DLFE-2232.pdf
personally, i'd bandpass the 10"s between 100Hz and 1500Hz.. and then put a HPF on the drivers from 1500Hz up..
the 6XS would also be the preferred choice.. |
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skellyuno
Street 2NR
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Tech posts: 75
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Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:30 pm
Post subject: |
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| wow thanks , for dah info ! |
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southside connections
12 pounds of Boost
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Tech posts: 2265
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Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:45 pm
Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:58 pm
Post subject:
skellyuno wrote:
ok so if i go audiocontrol,what frequency chips would cross proper frequencies for these speakers:- 10" RCF ,N850 rcfdrivers, bass?
check the frequency response charts on the RCF website to get the ideal crossover frequencies..
e.g.
http://www.rcf.it/en_US/c/d...=22488&name=DLFE-2197.pdf
look at the response graph at the bottom of the page.. you try to pick the flattest part of the graph.. i would say between 100Hz to 2000Hz is ideal.. below 100Hz, the output gets really low.. and above 2000Hz cone breakup starts to occur..
when you look at the N850 graph, you will see it plays well from 700Hz up..
http://www.rcf.it/en_US/c/d...=22488&name=DLFE-2232.pdf
personally, i'd bandpass the 10"s between 100Hz and 1500Hz.. and then put a HPF on the drivers from 1500Hz up..
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i would disagree here, remember we don't have a sealed chamber wit and rta mic to see the response of the unit in an open air environment that is a car
this is where hands on experience would come in
from my personal experience, the rcf l10750yk is at home in a .5 cubic foot closed enclosure for 100hz up tru 900hz
however, if a much lower tone is required, they can be very effective from 80hz and up to 900hz in a .75ft ported enclosure
the drivers should be crossed based on their flare's time alignment reference with consideration based on placement of the midbass
the n850's with the original 60 x 40 (long throw) or 90 x 40 (short throw) work at their best from the 900hz and up region
now because of the crossover points being exaclty 900hz as the lowpass on the 10's and the highpass on drivers, there is usually a timing lag there, which is know to the gallery world as "meshing"
to over come this, there is a rear highpass feature on the 6xs set at 250hz, you can easily use a pair of 8" midrange speakers there, this will allow the speaker to play from 250hz up to whatever it can play, thus eliminating this lag , allowing and masking this gap is the key to great meshing
now this is when you are running a high effiecncy 3 way system, however if you plan to run just a 10" and driver, i recommend you get a 100hz higpass alone for the rear highpass and leave the front bandpass off
this will allow the sound to "flow" into each other
you are not supposed to be telling which is playing at what time by you ears, anythime you can distinguish the driver from the midbass, you have no meshing
this is what i conclude from the gallery section, as it was throughly explained to me and i heard it first hand |
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3stagevtec
punchin NOS
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Tech posts: 4809
Location: killing two stones with one bird...
My 2NRide: Suzuki Grand Vitara
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:51 am
Post subject: |
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| southside connections wrote: | i would disagree here, remember we don't have a sealed chamber wit and rta mic to see the response of the unit in an open air environment that is a car
this is where hands on experience would come in
from my personal experience, the rcf l10750yk is at home in a .5 cubic foot closed enclosure for 100hz up tru 900hz
however, if a much lower tone is required, they can be very effective from 80hz and up to 900hz in a .75ft ported enclosure
the drivers should be crossed based on their flare's time alignment reference with consideration based on placement of the midbass
the n850's with the original 60 x 40 (long throw) or 90 x 40 (short throw) work at their best from the 900hz and up region
now because of the crossover points being exaclty 900hz as the lowpass on the 10's and the highpass on drivers, there is usually a timing lag there, which is know to the gallery world as "meshing"
to over come this, there is a rear highpass feature on the 6xs set at 250hz, you can easily use a pair of 8" midrange speakers there, this will allow the speaker to play from 250hz up to whatever it can play, thus eliminating this lag , allowing and masking this gap is the key to great meshing
now this is when you are running a high effiecncy 3 way system, however if you plan to run just a 10" and driver, i recommend you get a 100hz higpass alone for the rear highpass and leave the front bandpass off
this will allow the sound to "flow" into each other
you are not supposed to be telling which is playing at what time by you ears, anythime you can distinguish the driver from the midbass, you have no meshing
this is what i conclude from the gallery section, as it was throughly explained to me and i heard it first hand |
those freq - response graphs would have been done in an anechoic chamber which would simulate an open air environment..
also, cone breakup will occur once you try playing the 10" above 2000Hz and that will negatively affect the sound quality..
just look at the frequency response graphs and you will see how it looks..
the rear HPF on the 6XS was ideally designed to run a pair of components with a passive crossover, i would not recommend using it to run any mid bass - midrange drivers.. this is the major flaw of most local gallery systems imo, which results in that distorted sound..
i've never heard the term 'meshing' before.. but from what i know, in SQ you try to get your front stage to sound as though all the sound is coming from above your dash (stage height) and not from 2 (or 3) separate points.. that is usually achieved via crossover points and speaker placement.. in a gallery setup, i doubt that would be an issue..
the 6XS also uses 24dB/oct crossover slopes, which will not cause any phase issues.. |
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southside connections
12 pounds of Boost
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Tech posts: 2265
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:15 am
Post subject: |
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| i'll let you try it, tell me what u think |
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3stagevtec
punchin NOS
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Tech posts: 4809
Location: killing two stones with one bird...
My 2NRide: Suzuki Grand Vitara
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:44 am
Post subject: |
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| southside connections wrote: | | i'll let you try it, tell me what u think |
already did.. and i do understand what you were saying.. but at high volume levels, distortion will be more apparent if you don't properly cross those drivers.. |
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De IMPERIAL
Ricer
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Tech posts: 23
My 2NRide:
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:49 am
Post subject: |
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| if using an eqs with the 6xs is there still need to change chips? |
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3stagevtec
punchin NOS
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Tech posts: 4809
Location: killing two stones with one bird...
My 2NRide: Suzuki Grand Vitara
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:58 am
Post subject: |
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| De IMPERIAL wrote: | | if using an eqs with the 6xs is there still need to change chips? |
yes, the EQS is just an equalizer, it has no crossover capabilities..
you use / change the chips on the 6XS to match your speakers.. the EQS just enhances / equalizes the music.. |
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