civic problem:radiotor losing water --- urgent

adriano7910

only recently the cooling system started giving problems
let me document everything.
car 99-00 civic lev d15b non vtec
owned 9 yrs
problems started august this year
car started losing water and oil and also oil residue appeared in the overflow bottle and radiator
my dads friend suggected it cld be a bad thermostat . sound weird. but he took it out and told me drive the car normal.after a few days of it continuing i call our mechanic. he told me its the headgasket. made sense. carried the car in and he changed the head gasket and all other gaskets , shaved the head, changed the raditior fan and distributor seel and gave us back.
note the thermostat still is out if this helps. car works now doesnt burn oil but still loses water.overflow bottle always empty after driving and water goes down in radiator. filled up with water coolant misture thursday and checked oil and used it and came home didnt use the car since. used it today to go POS and come back. when i was in valpark with the ac on and the car idling i noticed the engine hard tumbling.looked over and the temp through the roof. switched of the car .let it cool for a 5 opened the raditor and nothing. strange no water.turned on the car turned the heater on and started pouring water in.radiator was completely empty and oil gone.me being stuned didnt notice the raditor fan wasnt coming on. because the steam and amount of water i used to fill back the radiator had me stunned. after i finish putting water in and bleeding out the bubbles i saw the engine check ligth come on and the temp go back down to half and stayed there since. drove home parked up. and let it cool down. switched back on the car little while ago and the check ligth not on nemore the raditaior lost some water and the fan still not coming on.
note the radiator fan problem has only began today or cld of been malfunctioning since we replaced it in early september. but why is the raditor losing water. and is the oil loss today because of the engine heat due to no water.

plz leave detailed comment to help me . i will greatly appreciate this

adriano7910 · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject:

note :engine oil level nvr moved b4 today since we got back the car in early september.

praise · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject:

Did you get the head pressure tested? When an engine overheats and you add cold water, chances are hairline cracks can occur in the cylinder head. Just as if you throw cold water in a hot glass, it breaks because of the sudden change of temperature The fact that even though that the gasket was replaced and the head shaved, the engine still lose water suggest that water is being burned, because of a hairline crack. You will have to remove the head again and pressure test it. The head will need to be replaced if it is cracked. But make sure that there are no leaks before removing the head again. There are some leaks that are hard to detect. Checking the condition of the spark plugs for a slightly yellow deposits also indicates water burning .
Now you need to get your fans functioning properly to help your engine operate at correct temp. The reason why you lose oil when the engine overheats is because of the Cst viscosity weight of the oil at temperature above normal oeration temp is lower, meaning the oil thins down too much and therefore too much oil would enter your combustion chamber and burn off. A 10W30 oil at 100 degrees would have a Cst of 10.5 but at 150 degrees would have a Cst of 4 only. A 20W50 oil would have a Cst of 18 at 100 degrees, but at 150 degrees, it would only have a Cst of 5. According to Auto engineers all gasoline engine should have a Cst of 10 at any operation temp for proper lubrication and protection. Having less than the required Cst cause the oil to burn off.
Finally, after correcting your problem, replace your thermostat, radiator cap and change out all radiator hoses to prevent future cooling problems. And always use alluminium friendly coolant.

adriano7910 · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:50 pm Post subject:

i am not sure if the head was pressure tested .ill find out tom morning. but all water use are room temperature . i figured the egine temperature caused the oil to burn off. will have to check the hoses and fan also tom and put back in the thermostat

hookage · Joined: 20 Aug 2009 Tech posts: 0 My 2NRide:

bess bet change the engine save money.

red_dragon · Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:32 am Post subject:

change head and block

cause could be poor machine work or as one suggestion the head crack

save the time , money and headache

NY4PD · Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:47 am Post subject:

If the fan is not coming on then check the fan sensor switch, which is located by the thermostat housing. Also you should put back the thermostat as well. The over heating problem still might be that the head have a crack some where so you should get it pressure tested. Check to see if the oil is mixing with water again, because this is what you metion before you had the head remove, so therefore if that's the case then the head is cracked, get a new head then, if you get a used head please get it shave and pressure tested before putting it on the motor.

Good Luck
Very Happy

NY4PD · Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:50 am Post subject:

I forgot to mention check to see if your water pump is any good, They usually have a pin hole on the water pump and they lose water thru there when its bad. they dont have to make noise to be bad like some people think. They can lose water fast and slow depends on how bad the seals are in the water pump. You will see a water stream mark on the water pump if its leaking.....most likely on the bottom of it...

Hope this help you out....

adriano7910 · Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:47 pm Post subject:

the fan started to come on today. migth be the switch. not sure. while revving the car in park to get the engine temp up after revving for a while the radiotr fan came on and stop revving it stayed on for a few seconds and went back off. came on in intervals afterwards
important piece of information i may have left out. when car is run hard since is came back in september ,seeing that i am a spirited driver the temp gauge goes up to around 3/4 when the car come to a stop and goes back down to half after a few seconds probably 6-10 seconds or will go back down if u start back to drive again. meaning u drive hard u stop at a ligth while at the ligth the temp gauge goes up and will come back down on its own or if the traffic moves and the car starts to drive again itll go down.

NY4PD · Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:36 pm Post subject:

Did you you bleed the coolant system after putting back the head.???

ruffnek · Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:53 pm Post subject:

don't install your thermostat as yet until the temperature works normal

i had owned one of these a while back with a warped head... with my experience i can say that head crack, head wasn't tightned properly, machine shop didn't do a proper job in shaving the head.

minor checks can be done to check this...

if you don't get through
786-2759 may be i can help you Mr. Green

NY4PD · Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject:

^^
Thats not right, temp only works right when all compents is installed and set up the way it should be, meaning the system should be blled and all new parts installed. A pressure should be perform to see if there is any leaks etc.

adriano7910 · Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:44 pm Post subject:

today radiator was cleaned and cooling system was pressure tested and one of those hard "u" shaped hoses was found to have a tear. hose was replaced by one from autonation. drove it tonigth not to long. drove hard. after a while the temp gauge still went up to 3/4 and came back down. goes up when u run the car hard and when it stops only then the temp gauge will start to raise or the engine is under strain like to maracus. when u start back to drive from the stop or after a period of time at the stop then the temp gauge starts to go back down. i check the water when i went out tonigth when i reached. didnt move. didnt check it since i reached home cause im letting it cool
ne one have ne idea why this happening
thermostat still out of car

praise · Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:56 am Post subject:

Did you replaced the radiator hoses as well? Sometimes these hoses can get suck in while driving hard and hence restrict the flow of water to the radiator. A small restriction can cause the temp to go up. Remember you are putting extra load on the engine when you drive hard or uphill. You automatically increase the amount of work the engine does, which requires more fuel and the the energy release from combustion equal kinectic and heat energy. The kinectic energy moves the car and the heat energy needs to be displaced.

NY4PD · Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:19 am Post subject:

Change the temp. guage sensor on the cylinder head. It maybe sending the wrong singal to the guage at times. Then it maybe working right at other times....so your guage maybe misleading you. that sensor will be the cause of that and you may think the car is overheating when it's really not.

adriano7910 · Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:40 pm Post subject:

oily residue was a previous problem b4 the gaskets where changed. hasnt happen since. i did wat you said and there was no gas pressure in the radiator just the usual hot water that wld pour over when u open a warm/hot full radiator. fuses, relays, rad fan and fan switch where checked today. all good. and another think i forgot to mention which i didnt think was relevant but found out it cld be today when i asked out of ignorance:- the car often weak starts when u start it for the first time after a while of rest and if u imediately switch off and start it again itll start more or less normal after. checked another mechanic but we was busy but i talked to him. he said it cld be the the head cracked (which causing the starting issue and the heating problem)even doh it was shaved and he said it cld be a bad water pump(malfunctioning or rotted fins). i need you all second third ninth opinions plz. thanks for the continued support

point noted about the temp gauge sensor will also check that
and no the rad hose was not changed but the entire system was pressure tested and only one hose showed a leak and it was changed. but ill check it out about the hose being sucked in. all suggestion are worth looking into at this point.just want my babes to be like she was for the last 8 yrs

NY4PD · Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:08 am Post subject:

As i mention before the water pump could be bad by slow leak or the bearing could be bad as well, hardly likely the fins are worn but it is possible.