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haydn28
Chronic TriniTuner
Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Tech posts: 634
Location: beating 20v with ah 8v
My 2NRide: Toyota Starlet
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 Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:30 pm
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Cl101 it doesent , what i experience personally is AFR changes on my wide band and i datalog different timing values to the ones ti tuned (but not badly different) around 2 weeks to 3 weeks and the car pulls slower so all i do is RELOAD the stored map i tuned from my laptop on the emanage and Walllahh!
if u go emanage i will jus tune u conservitively to compensate for this effect or if u have a Pc and no laptop jus get a long Printer cable to connect from ur pc to car and do it like me  if u like d extra performance,, |
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Hook
punchin NOS
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Tech posts: 3138
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:45 pm
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so every few weeks u hafta load stored fuel and ignition maps to compensate for the self-learning ECU?
there's no "set it and forget it" solution? |
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haydn28
Chronic TriniTuner
Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Tech posts: 634
Location: beating 20v with ah 8v
My 2NRide: Toyota Starlet
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:56 pm
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... even if ur ecu wasent self learning ur engine is ever wearing , volumetric efficiency is ever changing, an engine NEVER stays the same try dynoing an engine 3 times over 3 days and see if u get the same torque curve each time...., so before i race I always RETUNE my map, to get MAXIMUM power and d best powerband out of my engine, for normal application ....is a map reload too much to do? is 2 minuets of your time too much to ask for?,, for set it and forget it , go stand alone like MICROTECH, which is what i doing , but still a regular tune wudn't hurt  MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE is my motto |
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A172
Riding on 17's
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Tech posts: 1243
Location: inna lil blue car....
My 2NRide: Chevrolet Monza
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:27 pm
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but even if you use say, the Microtech LT8, even though yuh might get a 'set it and forget it' map/tune....wouldn't that be a whole lot more effort to work it up to get similar or just slightly more gains that the emanage?
just wondering  |
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haydn28
Chronic TriniTuner
Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Tech posts: 634
Location: beating 20v with ah 8v
My 2NRide: Toyota Starlet
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:20 pm
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| A172 wrote: | but even if you use say, the Microtech LT8, even though yuh might get a 'set it and forget it' map/tune....wouldn't that be a whole lot more effort to work it up to get similar or just slightly more gains that the emanage?
just wondering |
stand alone ems is real wuk to set up no question bout it , as YOU the tuner must now create a base map to run the engine and apply OEM like configurations to the ems like water temp enrichment, air temp enrichment etc, before u can actually get to the meat of the tuning . compared to a piggy back where u install , and tune the stock ecu which already has air /water temp enrichment , knock retard etc., really the piggy back like d emanage ultimate is very close to a stand alone and is great for tuning, and i think it depends on what a person wants out of an engine,
personally i want total control over EVERY engine parameter , which a piggy back can't do so is MICROTECH LT8S is 4 me....shinakuma is the man to tune this ems for u all if any one decides to go this way  |
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mikeae91
Street 2NR
Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Tech posts: 56
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:36 pm
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i changed plugs and cleaned the itb's its pulling gr8 but now the car isidling at 2000 rpm when i take out the air hose that goes to the step up it idles good but when i turn on ac the step up doesnt come on..
any ideas how to solve |
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firehead..
3NE 2NR for life
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Tech posts: 155
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:24 am
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| i havin d same problem to...but it not ideling soooo high...mine is @ 1000rpm....it also started happenin after i cleaned my intake as well jus two weeks back....u gettin ah hissing noise to when u mash d gas or at idel? |
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Hook
punchin NOS
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Tech posts: 3138
My 2NRide:
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:10 am
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| haydn28 wrote: | | ... even if ur ecu wasent self learning ur engine is ever wearing , volumetric efficiency is ever changing, an engine NEVER stays the same try dynoing an engine 3 times over 3 days and see if u get the same torque curve each time...., so before i race I always RETUNE my map, to get MAXIMUM power and d best powerband out of my engine, for normal application ....is a map reload too much to do? is 2 minuets of your time too much to ask for?,, for set it and forget it , go stand alone like MICROTECH, which is what i doing , but still a regular tune wudn't hurt MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE is my motto |
While that's a worthwhile motto u got there, do u seriously mean that every 3wks your engine wears enough to cause such a drastic change in volumetric efficiency that u MUST reload maps?
At that rate, u must be rebuilding the thing at every oil change!
But it can't be the same setting you're reverting to if the engine condition has changed that significantly enough to warrant it, so u MUST be completely re-tuning every 3 weeks, right? Performance fuel and ignition maps for a newer engine being used on an old worn engine? Surely you jest!
| haydn28 wrote: | | try dynoing an engine 3 times over 3 days and see if u get the same torque curve each time |
try getting exactly the same atmospheric conditions (barometric pressure, air temp, humidity) 3 times over 3 days FIRST, before you see if you can get the same torque curve each time  |
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firehead..
3NE 2NR for life
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Tech posts: 155
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:26 am
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| i havin d same problem to...but it not ideling soooo high...mine is @ 1000rpm....it also started happenin after i cleaned my intake as well jus two weeks back....u gettin ah hissing noise to when u mash d gas or at idel? |
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Hook
punchin NOS
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Tech posts: 3138
My 2NRide:
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:37 am
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did y'all reset the ECU?
cuz when mine is reset it idles at like 1500rpm for a bit but it comes down to normal gradually |
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haydn28
Chronic TriniTuner
Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Tech posts: 634
Location: beating 20v with ah 8v
My 2NRide: Toyota Starlet
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:35 pm
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| Hook wrote: | | haydn28 wrote: | | ... even if ur ecu wasent self learning ur engine is ever wearing , volumetric efficiency is ever changing, an engine NEVER stays the same try dynoing an engine 3 times over 3 days and see if u get the same torque curve each time...., so before i race I always RETUNE my map, to get MAXIMUM power and d best powerband out of my engine, for normal application ....is a map reload too much to do? is 2 minuets of your time too much to ask for?,, for set it and forget it , go stand alone like MICROTECH, which is what i doing , but still a regular tune wudn't hurt MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE is my motto |
While that's a worthwhile motto u got there, do u seriously mean that every 3wks your engine wears enough to cause such a drastic change in volumetric efficiency that u MUST reload maps?
At that rate, u must be rebuilding the thing at every oil change!
But it can't be the same setting you're reverting to if the engine condition has changed that significantly enough to warrant it, so u MUST be completely re-tuning every 3 weeks, right? Performance fuel and ignition maps for a newer engine being used on an old worn engine? Surely you jest!
| haydn28 wrote: | | try dynoing an engine 3 times over 3 days and see if u get the same torque curve each time |
try getting exactly the same atmospheric conditions (barometric pressure, air temp, humidity) 3 times over 3 days FIRST, before you see if you can get the same torque curve each time |
1st up VE isnt the only thing that changes pappy , plugs , atmospheric conditions, gas octane rating, oil breakdown, filters clogging, air leaks in the system, head torque loosening etc. the reloading im refering to is on a piggyback namely the emanage not stand alone ems. point is an engine never stays the same. now u can use the same tune for months at a time , for example on ur 20v, i will tune conservativly cause of octane requirements , cooling requirements, knock etc. and ur timing also conservativly. and u will find the self learning ecu will be more or less happy with the settings so it probably wont change much, now i can guess from the the stuff u have post u sounding lazy and u probably dont care bout performance much, but if u ever tune a car then go back 1 month later and view ur wideband u might c different readings than u initally tuned jus speaking from my limited experience not any copy and paste from google thing....personally before i race i always retune, some times a gain of 20+ whp ca n be realized from ur new tune |
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A172
Riding on 17's
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Tech posts: 1243
Location: inna lil blue car....
My 2NRide: Chevrolet Monza
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:43 pm
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Hook, in your opinion/experience, do you really think you can set up a map say, today, and then race two weeks later and the motor will respond the SAME exact way  |
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Zeriam
punchin NOS
Joined: 06 May 2006
Tech posts: 2839
Location: Morvant
My 2NRide: Toyota Corolla
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:47 pm
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| stock NA engine or stock turbo engine u guys bout here? |
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haydn28
Chronic TriniTuner
Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Tech posts: 634
Location: beating 20v with ah 8v
My 2NRide: Toyota Starlet
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:54 pm
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zeriam every thing man try to keep up wit d reading ...or are my post too long
jus helping out with some ems info for my toyota fellows, |
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Hook
punchin NOS
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Tech posts: 3138
My 2NRide:
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:56 pm
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| haydn28 wrote: |
1st up VE isnt the only thing that changes pappy , plugs , atmospheric conditions, gas octane rating, oil breakdown, filters clogging, air leaks in the system, head torque loosening etc. the reloading im refering to is on a piggyback namely the emanage not stand alone ems. point is an engine never stays the same. now u can use the same tune for months at a time , for example on ur 20v, i will tune conservativly cause of octane requirements , cooling requirements, knock etc. and ur timing also conservativly. and u will find the self learning ecu will be more or less happy with the settings so it probably wont change much, now i can guess from the the stuff u have post u sounding lazy and u probably dont care bout performance much, but if u ever tune a car then go back 1 month later and view ur wideband u might c different readings than u initally tuned jus speaking from my limited experience not any copy and paste from google thing....personally before i race i always retune, some times a gain of 20+ whp ca n be realized from ur new tune |
whether or not I'm geared towards "performance" has nothing to do with it
u painted this picture that your car NEEDS a retune every few weeks because of all the stuff that changes and wears and fails on it (stuff that's gonna do that anyway, even on un-modded high performance machines straight out of the box), NOW u calling ME lazy cuz I don't see the point of having to dig up in it so often? Ferrari drivers don't re-map once a month.
I dunno about you, but I've much more important things to do than breastfeed an engine
| haydn28 wrote: |
personally before i race i always retune, some times a gain of 20+ whp ca n be realized from ur new tune
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u dyno before every run? |
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Zeriam
punchin NOS
Joined: 06 May 2006
Tech posts: 2839
Location: Morvant
My 2NRide: Toyota Corolla
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:58 pm
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| well reason i asked was i always had a view that a turbo engine would require more tuning intervals than NA. but what your saying makes sense but i'd consider that for racing only not for a daily driver. But thats just me |
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Hook
punchin NOS
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Tech posts: 3138
My 2NRide:
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:02 pm
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| A172 wrote: | | Hook, in your opinion/experience, do you really think you can set up a map say, today, and then race two weeks later and the motor will respond the SAME exact way |
lol...u posting in the other forums all day and THEN only decide to post here after Haydn responded to me? u have a peg-leg or something?
anyways, I'll answer your question with the same question I posted to ur buddy there that he never answered.
After all these parameters change, in your opinion/experience, do you really think the same old maps from the original tune are gonna have the same effect on the worn motor? |
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haydn28
Chronic TriniTuner
Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Tech posts: 634
Location: beating 20v with ah 8v
My 2NRide: Toyota Starlet
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:14 pm
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| Quote: | | u dyno before every run? |
YES $300 per hour ,and i only need one 
now hook doh get emo nah pappy , issa tech discussion we having after all, i sorry 4 telling u u lazy and thing... 
now u say u dont have time to breast an engine ...quite understandable jus read my post carefully this time , i never said u HAVE to reload maps or retune necessarily its ur choice, i was jus giving some advice that i use my self..ofcourse in the best interest of a daily driver wudn't u want ah bess fuel economy and reasonable performance...u cant want ah bess fuel economy and not give the tune a check every now and then..
now dont think ur stock ecu has only 1 map eh...it have bout 20 or so ,when it 'learns' it reverts to 1 best suited to the engine status and enviroment.. so ent ur stock ecu retuning it self by LOADING a stored map??  u guys tend to think i have a race car..not so at all its a daily driver  and its tuned on daily drives to get good economy with performance , on race day its tuned richer in the drivable maps for cooling .off boost after a hard run and fine tuned for high boost depending on the gas being used on that day |
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haydn28
Chronic TriniTuner
Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Tech posts: 634
Location: beating 20v with ah 8v
My 2NRide: Toyota Starlet
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:19 pm
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| Quote: | anyways, I'll answer your question with the same question I posted to ur buddy there that he never answered.
After all these parameters change, in your opinion/experience, do you really think the same old maps from the original tune are gonna have the same effect on the worn motor?
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hook u so busy replying to me that u ent reading my post meng
try to find the word "RETUNE" it might help |
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A172
Riding on 17's
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Tech posts: 1243
Location: inna lil blue car....
My 2NRide: Chevrolet Monza
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:09 pm
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| Hook wrote: | | A172 wrote: | | Hook, in your opinion/experience, do you really think you can set up a map say, today, and then race two weeks later and the motor will respond the SAME exact way |
lol...u posting in the other forums all day and THEN only decide to post here after Haydn responded to me? u have a peg-leg or something?
anyways, I'll answer your question with the same question I posted to ur buddy there that he never answered.
After all these parameters change, in your opinion/experience, do you really think the same old maps from the original tune are gonna have the same effect on the worn motor? |
so you've been following me around whole day on the forums?
I guess you really have better things to do than breastfeed an engine 
I don't think anyone ever mentioned using the same maps in different conditions and getting the same EXACT performance across the board...if you're referring to the 1st post on this page, yeh I've personally seen a simple reload of a map cure some problems, although to get ALL sorted out some values have to be changed on the map....just a couple hard runs, observe, target, change....thaz like wha...ah 15mins?
in any case, I think haydn already corrected himself....a retune is always recommended. |
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