APR Tuned

dale · Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: APR Tuned

We sent our ECU off to APR, LLC this week for 91 Octane chipping. This chipping promises 209hp/242lb-ft on my 06A906032DL ECU. So by Monday I should have my ECU installed and ready to run. A previous mod was also the Spec stage 1 with Eurospec G60 lightened flywheel.

BANzai Rastafarai · Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject:

good stuff....interesting setup you hvave there....

thegtiman · Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: APR Tuned

dale · Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject:

TriniVdub · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:18 am Post subject:

all those mods are fine however ur still on that K03 which is the main drawback to the 1.8t Crying or Very sad

dale · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:10 am Post subject:

I agree, I'm shopping around for the Garrett GT28RS for next year. Because that's another BIG upgrade, and I still have a few other items to upgrade along with my BT setup that can wait for now.

Garrett GT28RS
APR Stage 3 upgrade
Front Mount Intercooler w/ piping
Silicone Hoses (TIP and Coolant)

TriniVdub · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:11 am Post subject:

yea APR is nice but for the money i dont think its worth it...they're jus way to expensive, have u tried contacting arnold from pagparts. Top notch kits on par with APR if not better, plus its cheaper with potential for more power gains. Message me if u want details of the kit he quoted me with price. This is probably the kit i'm leaning too, or maybe i'll just go with the ATP eliminator GT2871R and not have to worry about upgrading my rods.

thegtiman · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject:

TriniVdub · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject:

^^^^ U have a point however the ATP turbo kit is decent, its just that the hot side of the turbo aka turbine side has a very small exit restricting the flow. This can somewhat be helped by changing the manifold and upgrading the exhaust system. Many people have made well over 300bhp on the GT28rs elim. kits and the longitudinal motors have made well over 330whp with the 2871. However the difference is that they don't have the same hot side like the transverse motors.

TriniVdub · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject:

And jus so u know unitronic > APR Razz

thegtiman · Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:41 am Post subject:

TriniVdub · Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:38 am Post subject:

thegtiman · Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject:

The KO4 is designed to be a turbo that could reach full efficient operation at 2400rpm when fitted to APY, BAM and other 225 and 237ps engines of the VW/Audi/Seat group. The problem arises from aggressive adjustments to boost control vent duty as some tuners or customers chase headline figures. This not only causes spikes in pressure ratio but also excess heat, rapid cylinder pressure rises, detonation and ultimatley engine distruction.
You would also find in addition to "H" sectioned rods that your 2 piece exhaust valves will require replacement if engine torque or the accompanying cylinder pressure is at a 300lbft level.
You talk about a lesser engine hitting "more than 300bhp" with a GT28RS. Well,
This picture shows what happened to a BAM code 225ps engine that was installed in a MK2 Golf and fitted with GT2871R and a DTA engine control unit. This failure occured after testing the motor to 320lbft@4800-5200. The turbo pressure was 210kPa. He soon updated the hardware to the shiny bits to the right.

Click for full-size.

This car originally had the OEM K04 but on DTA and had the same torque but occuring at 3800-4000 rpm then rapidly decreasing. To achieve that airflow the turbo was boosed to 240kPa.

Click for full-size.

A GT28RS unit will produce a similar airlflow but at a higher pressure ratio and peak at a rpm point/s betweem a KO4 and 2871R assuming its the same engine.
On a 9.5: 1 engine and GT28RS you can to flow the same air but you will be limited by a lower det limit threshold and weaker engine components so even less torque pending a really good engine calibration.

TriniVdub · Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject:

Some really nice pics and info, thanks. If i'm not mistaken those look like Pauter rods and a GT2871R in a KK housing aka eliminator?
The thing is i'm not looking to go anywhere near 240kpa (aprx 24psi) i'm looking more on the lines of 18-20 psi for now with the stock internals, my main concern with going for this setup ie the eliminator is because i know it would fit with minor modifications. Also cause i'm getting a really good deal. I dont expect crazy power after all how much power do u really want in a fwd!! so i think for the money its a good deal when compared to other kits.
The good thing with a 9.5:1 compression ratio is that once the internals are strengthened, u can run much less boost and make the same hp than on a low compression motor running more boost. This can significantly improve engine life.

thegtiman · Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject:

TriniVdub · Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject:

^^^^Actually 240Kpa = 34.8psi, no wonder he bent a rod. With that amount of boost on the stock internals it was only inevitable.
And for the prics of those pauters i would much rather go with IE's and have money left back. Don't get me wrong the pauters are amazing but for 300-400hp it doesn't make sense when u can go for either IE's or SCAT's for cheaper and are also very high quality high-tensile 4340 forged material.

thegtiman · Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject:

Please do not confuse the terms. Sad

240kPa = 20.3psi. It is absoulte pressure not gauge. Let me remind you that 240kPa was the boost pressure set on the k04 set up not Garrett. The rod bent when the running the Garrett unit.
It is a known fact that rods and valves give up on these engines when their robustness is exceeded.
The owner on this Mark 2 does not skimp on materials and he is very meticulous being a VW service adviser at the time. You could choose to use cheaper items for the same reliablity.
Discussions like these are very well covered on CGTI.

TriniVdub · Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:12 pm Post subject:

thegtiman · Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:13 am Post subject:

GT28RS - improved spread of air flow into higher rpm ranges of the engine, which means increased need for more accurate Mass Air Flow mesurements or MAF to Voltage ECU calibration.
KM manifold - increased energy distribution to turbine nozzle. Reduction in exhaust reversion
415cc injectors - more fuel flow to hit target AFRs for optimum torque with increased air mass at higher rpm. Hopefully in mutispray pattern
* need to make sure your fuel pump is able to meet increased fuel demand*
2.75-3" downpipe for the first 50cm.
Turbo Intake Pipe- Intake pipe needs to match turbo compressor inlet and is larger than OEM (see picture in previous thread)
Unitronic - I am not into flie flashing or downloading unless I know what is done to the calibration and have validatated myself so cannot say.
EBC - a 1.8T engine will come with a "N75" valve and is ECU controlled something that should be included in the ecu calibration.
Running on OEM internals - to optimise is subject to custom tuning on a dyno or other validation device and including road tuning. Updating to another file in this case may work but is not ideal for optimisation neither can anybody ensure that your engine will not grenade except the Unitronic supplier.

In summary -
All things being equal the G28RS hardware, run at most efficient set points will be capabable of a larger spread of torque from 3000-6000rpm when compared to a K03 turbo when typically overboosted to 18psi of airflow has torque ranging from 1800-5000rpm in a TDI shape. The Garrett huffer will make the car feel like a drivers car.
I am not really into the numbers hype as dynos and hype vary wildy.

TriniVdub · Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:53 am Post subject:

Ah thanks for all the info, The unitronic is suited for the N75 valve in which case i have already changed my valve to the N75J, but it can also be bypassed with this particular file to include an ebc. And i will be using Vag-com on a regular basis recording logs etc to make sure everything is within the safe limits.